UGwb Control

[Vazdru]

I was playing in a tournament today with this deck, results weren't quite what I expected. As you know, I've been mostly playing against control where this deck shines, but the tournament was filled with aggro. Here's a smallish report;

Round 1, RG Beats
G1: Angel flipped on turn four, I gave her a Sword of Light and Shadow, won.
G2: I didn't see or played any blue manasources in this game. Had an opening grip of 2 Forest, Plains, Wasteland, Hierarch, Baloth and Spawnwrithe. Spawnwrithe eventually won me the game.
(yeah pyyhttu, 'twas me next to you.)

Round 2, RB Goblins
G1: Lost to Price of Progress.
G2: Lost to Patriarch's Bidding.
Had I've seen those coming I may have won, both times I had a counter in my hand but no mana open. On game two I've had just Intuitioned for Loam, EE and Academy Ruins. Zo-Zu the Punisher HURTS!

Round 3, Uwb Control
G1: Lost to Sensei's Divining Top + Future Sight shenanigans.
G2: I had the engine up and running. Intuitioned for Loam, Ruins and Etched Oracle, kept beating with it until my opponent was at six life. He played Stuffy Doll which I bounced back to his hand on my turn and beat him down to two. On his turn he replayed the Doll. I didn't have an answer in my hand nor I didn't find one, I drew 12 cards from Cephalid Coliseum and dredged 6 with Loam, still nothing, not even Wonder showed up. On his turn time limit was called and he just played Guilty Conscience.

Round 4, Uwg Mindslaver
G1: Spawnwrithe got Remanded and shortly after countered. I bounced Mirari's Wake once but that didn't help much. Didn't see but 4 lands in this game.
G2: The same as G1, although I played three Signets but they were eaten by Trygon Predator. Intuitioned for Loam, Ruins and Academy but I didn't have enough mana to clear the board.

Here's the current list, by the way;

1 Polluted Delta     1 Flooded Strand     1 Windswept Heath     1 Wooded Foothills     1 Bloodstained Mire     1 Tropical Island     1 Underground Sea     1 Tundra     1 Savannah     1 Bayou     1 Scrubland     1 Breeding Pool     1 Watery Grave     1 Hallowed Fountain     1 Temple Garden     1 Overgrown Tomb     1 Godless Shrine     6 Island     3 Forest     2 Plains     2 Swamp     1 Golgari Signet     1 Selesnya Signet     1 Orzhov Signet     1 Coalition Relic     34     1 Lonely Sandbar     1 Tranquil Thicket     1 Nantuko Monastery     1 Wasteland     1 Volrath's Stronghold     1 Academy Ruins     1 Cephalid Coliseum     7

1 Wall of Roots     1 Dark Confidant     1 Jotun Grunt     1 Trygon Predator     1 Hag Hedge-Mage     1 Loaming Shaman     1 Eternal Witness     1 Yavimaya Elder     1 Solemn Simulacrum     1 Mystic Snake     1 Aeon Chronicler     1 Shriekmaw     1 Etched Oracle     1 Tarmogoyf     1 Spawnwrithe     1 Ravenous Baloth     1 Loxodon Hierarch     1 Exalted Angel     1 Wonder     1 Genesis     20     1 Sword of Fire and Ice     1 Sword of Light and Shadow     2

1 Sensei's Divining Top     1 Brainstorm     1 Ponder     1 Life from the Loam     1 Demonic Tutor     1 Regrowth     1 Recollect     1 Recurring Nightmare     1 Thirst for Knowledge     1 Intuition     1 Jace Beleren     1 Fact or Fiction     1 Gifts Ungiven     13     1 Stifle     1 Daze     1 Mana Leak     1 Evasive Action     1 Counterspell     1 Forbid     1 Dissipate     1 Faerie Trickery     1 Voidslime     1 Undermine     1 Absorb     1 Force of Will     1 Misdirection     13

1 Engineered Explosives     1 Swords to Plowshares     1 Echoing Truth     1 Chainer's Edict     1 Rushing River     1 Oblivion Ring     1 Vindicate     1 Mortify     1 Krosan Grip     1 Putrefy     1 Pernicious Deed     11

So in conclusion;
Pact of Negation/Slaughter Pact? Kinda mana free answers, I need them.
Daze/Foil?
WoG/Damnation/Infest? Two of them or all of them?
More mana producing lands? 30 is way too less(not counting utility-lands).
I'm gonna lessen the creature count for more answers to the situations I miserably lost today.

Why Swords of Light and Shadow? In my opinion you do not play enough evasion creatures to get any advantage of that equipement quite often.
Have we already spoken about Survival of the Fittest? I think it would fit nicely. Without Survival i would cut Wonder and Genesis for sure!

If you wanna add Pact of Negation try Tolaria West as well. In my opinion Impulse is still better than Ponder. Instead of adding WoG or Damnation just add Enlightened Tutor as second Deed or Explosives or of course Survival/Recurring!

Foil wouldn't work in your deck.

[VuRkka]

Have we already spoken about Survival of the Fittest? I think it would fit nicely. Without Survival i would cut Wonder and Genesis for sure!

No we haven't, it would be nice, but again, I don't own one.. yet.

If you wanna add Pact of Negation try Tolaria West as well. In my opinion Impulse is still better than Ponder. Instead of adding WoG or Damnation just add Enlightened Tutor as second Deed or Explosives or of course Survival/Recurring!

Tolaria, atleast, is going in the deck with Pacts.
And why Impulse is better than Ponder?

I already made these changes;
Selesnya Signet -> Tolaria West
Nantuko Monastery -> Island
Hag Hedge-Mage -> Raven's Crime (The Mage was nice and all, but Raven's Crime is better I hear.)
Wall of Roots -> Dromar's Charm (I give up, I may need it after all. :)
Spawnwrithe -> Slaughter Pact
Absorb -> Pact of Negation
Misdirection -> Collective Restraint
Thrist for Knowledge -> Enlightened Tutor
Putrefy -> Bant Charm
Recollect -> Impulse
Sword of Light and Shadow -> Glen Elendra Archmage
Golgari Signet -> Darksteel Ingot
Orzhov Signet -> Terramorphic Expanse
Jotun Grunt -> Tormod's Crypt
Dark Confidant -> Trinket Mage
Sword of Fire and Ice -> Mulldrifter
Ponder -> Worldly Counsel
Aeon Chronicler -> Crime n Punishment

[Mythrandir]

And why Impulse is better than Ponder?

1) it´s an instant, so u can make it eot and keep your mana open. respond to a Price of progress in order to (try) dig up a counterspell
2) it digs deeper!!
3) with ponder u might draw an unkown, thus, worse card.

[VuRkka]

Selesnya Signet -> Tolaria West
Nantuko Monastery -> Island
Hag Hedge-Mage -> Raven's Crime (The Mage was nice and all, but Raven's Crime is better I hear.)
Wall of Roots -> Dromar's Charm (I give up, I may need it after all.
Spawnwrithe -> Slaughter Pact
Absorb -> Pact of Negation
Misdirection -> Collective Restraint
Thrist for Knowledge -> Enlightened Tutor
Putrefy -> Bant Charm
Recollect -> Impulse
Sword of Light and Shadow -> Glen Elendra Archmage
Golgari Signet -> Darksteel Ingot
Orzhov Signet -> Terramorphic Expanse
Jotun Grunt -> Tormod's Crypt
Dark Confidant -> Trinket Mage
Sword of Fire and Ice -> Mulldrifter
Ponder -> Worldly Counsel
Aeon Chronicler -> Crime n Punishment

Weekly update;

1 Polluted Delta 1 Flooded Strand 1 Windswept Heath 1 Wooded Foothills 1 Bloodstained Mire 1 Tropical Island 1 Underground Sea 1 Tundra 1 Savannah 1 Bayou 1 Scrubland 1 Breeding Pool 1 Watery Grave 1 Hallowed Fountain 1 Temple Garden 1 Overgrown Tomb 1 Godless Shrine 1 Terramorphic Expanse 7 Island 3 Forest 2 Plains 2 Swamp 1 Darksteel Ingot 1 Coalition Relic 34 1 Volrath's Stronghold 1 Academy Ruins 1 Cephalid Coliseum 1 Lonely Sandbar 1 Tranquil Thicket 1 Tolaria West 1 Wasteland 7

1 Trinket Mage 1 Trygon Predator 1 Loaming Shaman 1 Eternal Witness 1 Yavimaya Elder 1 Solemn Simulacrum 1 Glen Elendra Archmage 1 Mystic Snake 1 Etched Oracle 1 Mulldrifter 1 Shriekmaw 1 Tarmogoyf 1 Ravenous Baloth 1 Loxodon Hierarch 1 Exalted Angel 1 Wonder 1 Genesis 17 1 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Brainstorm 1 Enlightened Tutor 1 Impulse 1 Worldly Counsel 1 Life from the Loam 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Regrowth 1 Recurring Nightmare 1 Intuition 1 Jace Beleren 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Gifts Ungiven 13

1 Pact of Negation 1 Stifle 1 Raven's Crime 1 Remand 1 Mana Leak 1 Evasive Action 1 Counterspell 1 Forbid 1 Dissipate 1 Faerie Trickery 1 Voidslime 1 Undermine 1 Dromar's Charm 1 Force of Will 14 1 Slaughter Pact 1 Tormod's Crypt 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Swords to Plowshares 1 Echoing Truth 1 Chainer's Edict 1 Rushing River 1 Krosan Grip 1 Oblivion Ring 1 Vindicate 1 Mortify 1 Bant Charm 1 Pernicious Deed 1 Collective Restraint 1 Crime n Punishment 15

I'm still, for some reason, miserably losing if an opponent goes on aggro plan.
Also, I need more mana producing lands. 32 isn't clearly enough even with aggressive mulligans, Coliseum is the first to cut, but what else?

[Mythrandir]

As for the color screw, i think it may be a bit of bad luck + MWS crappy shuffle. However you might try playing vesuva + urborg + krosan verge, [ALA] lands. Dou you have this deck in real life? Do you have the same problem?

Because (and this is weird) my real life deck has different problems from the online 1. lol

As for aggro, i have no idea how to help you. You play all the nice creature available to control (and for your colors).

You try and add putrefy + moat + tabernacle, maze of ith (crop rotation for these lands)The main difference in our decks is the R. i have FTK, lightning helix + sudden shock + demonfire + fire/ice. whick can really make the difference, since some of them are only 2 CMC, instants.

[VuRkka]

As for the color screw, i think it may be a bit of bad luck + MWS crappy shuffle. However you might try playing vesuva + urborg + krosan verge, [ALA] lands. Dou you have this deck in real life? Do you have the same problem?
Because (and this is weird) my real life deck has different problems from the online 1. lol

I do have the deck IRL, its the very first and only deck I've played in this format so far.
For the mana screws; color screw rarely occurs, the most common screws are not drawing any lands or just drawing lands for 5 or so turns(this is for both, MWS and IRL - Maybe my hands use the same algorithms as MWS shuffler :o).

I was thinking about replacing Coliseum with Murmuring Bosk and one of each splash color basic with those Morningtide(?) filter lands. Just for the sake of not getting randomly color screwed, allthough, it'd weaken my manabase against B2B, Blood Moon and whatnot, the current basic count seems to be the most optimal.

As for aggro, i have no idea how to help you. You play all the nice creature available to control (and for your colors).
You try and add putrefy + moat + tabernacle, maze of ith (crop rotation for these lands)The main difference in our decks is the R. i have FTK, lightning helix + sudden shock + demonfire + fire/ice. whick can really make the difference, since some of them are only 2 CMC, instants.

The problem against aggro is I can't remove their early threats early enough. Most of my counters have cmc 3 and that's too much. If I were to replace counters with more cheap removal I'd lose the advantage versus control. Most of the time I've been tutoring for Collective Restraints asap, it helps me to get into the late game and to get all of those engines running. Ghostly Prison and Propaganda along with the Restraints would lock them out pretty badly, but bleh..
For the latest list I've posted, I've made these changes;
Wonder -> Wrath of God
Worldly Counsel -> Damnation
I'm going to test the following changes;
Yavimaya Elder -> Putrefy

I recently added Glen Elendra Archmage which has been great, but if I'd have to rely on it against control I should be tutoring for it first. Which seems to be weaker in overall than Gifts for Loam, Ruins, Oracle, EE. So I wouldn't be happy to take out counters in order to improve aggro matchup. Hell, I'm already playing more removal than permission.

Are there enough good discard spells to use them as disruption? I only can think of Castigate, Duress and Thoughtseize(I'm already playing Raven's Crime).

[so_not]

Your deck is IMO missing some critical cards that are good against aggro and control (plus some other cards):
Kitchen Finks
Phantom Centaur
Troll Ascetic
Garruk

Wall of Roots
Wall of Blossoms
Sakura-Tribe Elder

You might want to add even some of these to improve all your matchups.

[Mythrandir]

Your deck is IMO missing some critical cards that are good against aggro and control (plus some other cards):
Kitchen Finks
Phantom Centaur
Troll Ascetic
Garruk

Wall of Roots
Wall of Blossoms
Sakura-Tribe Elder

You might want to add even some of these to improve all your matchups.

totally agree on garruk and kitchen finks. as for centaur and troll seems a bit more aggro oriented..

[VuRkka]

Your deck is IMO missing some critical cards that are good against aggro and control (plus some other cards):
Kitchen Finks
Phantom Centaur
Troll Ascetic
Garruk

Wall of Roots
Wall of Blossoms
Sakura-Tribe Elder

You might want to add even some of these to improve all your matchups.

I used to have few walls in this deck, the first list I've posted here still had two of them.
The problem with them was that they didn't remove the problem, they just kept it away for a while until I found a sweeper, which removed most of my board too. Then, if an opponent weren't too over extent(takes a lot of skill :P) won the game as I had a clear board. I'm nowadays playing way more sweepers and Collective Restraint(doesn't get blown away with deed) which seems to do their job just okay, but I still wouldn't say they make aggro matchup favorable(somewhere around 50/50 though). Then again, I haven't had a chance to test them properly, as no-one from my playgroup plays aggro.

As for the rest, Finks would seem to be a nice little thing, but not great enough to improve my game plan by any way, imo. Sure, it blocks twice, but I'd rather play creatures which helps me to win rather than the ones that keeps me from losing.

Garruk is the only one I'm going to add in, it has been on my buy list since the beginning.

[VuRkka]

Few changes again;
Cephalid Coliseum -> Murmuring Bosk (Fetchable, I wish there was a whole cycle of these. And yes, it always CIPT.)
Forest -> Flooded Grove (Fixes some mana with the cost of becoming more vulnerable to B2B and Blood Moon, has been great though.)
Plains -> Mystic Gate (--||--)
Swamp -> Sunken Ruins (--||--)
Mystic Snake -> Grave-Shell Scarab (Snake's CC has been a burden lately. This is the Garruk slot.)
Recurring Nightmare -> Personal Tutor (Nightmare got a Win more-stamp on it's forehead. I've been chaining the tutor; Personal, Demonic, Gifts, other targets have been mostly WoG and Vindicate. It could become Merchant Scroll.)
Undermine -> Condescend (Easier to cast, fixes some draws.)
Wonder -> Wrath of God (Helps against aggro, tutorable.)
Yavimaya Elder -> Putrefy (More removals, that's what I need.)
I've also added Delay, but I just can't remember what was in it's place.

1 Polluted Delta 1 Flooded Strand 1 Windswept Heath 1 Wooded Foothills 1 Bloodstained Mire 1 Tropical Island 1 Underground Sea 1 Tundra 1 Savannah 1 Bayou 1 Scrubland 1 Breeding Pool 1 Watery Grave 1 Hallowed Fountain 1 Temple Garden 1 Overgrown Tomb 1 Godless Shrine 1 Murmuring Bosk 1 Terramorphic Expanse 7 Island 2 Forest 1 Plains 1 Swamp 1 Flooded Grove 1 Mystic Gate 1 Sunken Ruins 1 Darksteel Ingot 1 Coalition Relic 35 1 Volrath's Stronghold 1 Academy Ruins 1 Lonely Sandbar 1 Tranquil Thicket 1 Tolaria West 1 Wasteland 6

1 Trinket Mage 1 Trygon Predator 1 Loaming Shaman 1 Eternal Witness 1 Solemn Simulacrum 1 Glen Elendra Archmage 1 Etched Oracle 1 Mulldrifter 1 Shriekmaw 1 Tarmogoyf 1 Ravenous Baloth 1 Loxodon Hierarch 1 Grave-Shell Scarab 1 Exalted Angel 1 Genesis 15 1 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Brainstorm 1 Personal Tutor 1 Enlightened Tutor 1 Impulse 1 Worldly Counsel 1 Life from the Loam 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Regrowth 1 Intuition 1 Jace Beleren 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Gifts Ungiven 13

1 Pact of Negation 1 Stifle 1 Raven's Crime 1 Remand 1 Mana Leak 1 Evasive Action 1 Delay 1 Condescend 1 Counterspell 1 Forbid 1 Dissipate 1 Voidslime 1 Dromar's Charm 1 Force of Will 14 1 Slaughter Pact 1 Tormod's Crypt 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Swords to Plowshares 1 Echoing Truth 1 Chainer's Edict 1 Rushing River 1 Krosan Grip 1 Oblivion Ring 1 Vindicate 1 Mortify 1 Bant Charm 1 Putrefy 1 Pernicious Deed 1 Collective Restraint 1 Wrath of God 1 Crime n Punishment 17

Pithing Needle is something I desperately need since the printing of Relic of Progenitus.
Are Rav-block Karoo-lands playable?

On overall the deck has been quite solid lately. Resolved Gifts to Oracle, Loam, Raven's Crime and Academy Ruins is a win in a couple of turns. I know that the League matches doesn't quite show it(Not a single matches won, yay!), but MWS hates me for some reason.

[Nastaboi]

Are Rav-block Karoo-lands playable?

They are amazing, I play them in every deck of mine including mono-coloured ones. (Heartbeat is the sole expection for obvious reasons.) You should definitely play on-colour ones, maybe not Basilica but the other five. They synergize with untap effects, played cycling lands and baby's collars, just to name few. And for the love of God, cut Terramorphic Expanse.

[Genesis]

Any updates here..? Have you tried "karoo-lands" already?

[VuRkka]

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Ehh, still stopping by with the current list for your amusement.

Can't remember the exact changes, but the latest ones are;
Putrefy -> Maelstrom Pulse (Prolly a wrong call, may need both of them)
Trygon Predator -> Qasali Pridemage
Some basics -> Karoo-lands

Flooded Strand Polluted Delta Windswept Heath Wooded Foothills Bloodstained Mire Tropical Island Tundra Underground Sea Savannah Bayou Scrubland Breeding Pool Hallowed Fountain Watery Grave Temple Garden Overgrown Tomb Godless Shrine Murmuring Bosk 5 Island 2 Forest Plains Swamp Flooded Grove Mystic Gate Sunken Ruins Simic Growth Chamber Azorius Chancery Dimir Aqueduct Coalition Relic Darksteel Ingot 35 Volrath's Stronghold Academy Ruins Lonely Sandbar Tranquil Thicket Tolaria West Wasteland 6

Tarmogoyf Knight of the Reliquary Ravenous Baloth Loxodon Hierarch Exalted Angel 5 Sensei's Divining Top Brainstorm Personal Tutor Enlightened Tutor Impulse Worldly Counsel Life from the Loam Regrowth Demonic Tutor Crucible of Worlds Trinket Mage Intuition Jace Beleren Eternal Witness Solemn Simulacrum Gifts Ungiven Fact or Fiction Garruk Wildspeaker Etched Oracle Mulldrifter 20

Pact of Negation Raven's Crime Mana Leak Memory Lapse Remand Evasive Action Condescend Syncopate Counterspell Dissipate Forbid Dromar's Charm Glen Elendra Archmage Force of Will 14 Tormod's Crypt Engineered Explosives Slaughter Pact Swords to Plowshares Echoing Truth Chainer's Edict Qasali Pridemage Rushing River Krosan Grip Loaming Shaman Oblivion Ring Maelstrom Pulse Pernicious Deed Mortify Vindicate Bant Charm Nevinyrral's Disk Collective Restraint Wrath of God Shriekmaw 20