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Hi everybody,

I had some time, and decided to update the Highlander section on mtgtop8 (I chose to keep only the events that had > 10 players). :
http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=HIGH

I hope this will be useful to some of you (at least those who want to check some percentages !).

Now in the future, you can maybe submit events (via http://mtgtop8.com/submit_event ), if you think mtgtop8 is useful. I can also give to some of you the possibility to administrate the Highlander section on mtgtop8, if you're interested.

Have a nice day,

Yann

After some time, the Highlander format is now available from the homepage of mtgtop8 (Other -> Highlander) !

Now, the "Most played cards" is more convenient (doesn't show the lands on the homepage of Highlander ; you can still have them if you clic on "Would you like to know more ?" if needed).

I didn't update the section since january 2015, but I can do it, if you think it will be a useful tool (you can of course submit events via the submit event page, etc.)

If you're interested, in the future we have the intention of allowing the possibility to administrate some sections of mtgtop8 to "community leaders". If you like mtgtop8, and think it would be more convenient for you to organize your top8 on this site, you would have the possibility to :

* add / remove archetypes
* sort archetypes in aggro/control/combo (no other sub-sections, though)
* add / remove timings for metagames (cf. Post Survival's Ban / Post Mulligan Change)

I know that you're used to mtgpulse, but I really think that mtgtop8 gives you tools you don't have on mtgpulse. Let me know if you think this is interesting, and of course... happy new year !

Yann

Hi everybody,

Let me know when you arrive to a consensus about deck names. You remember that I took the 15+ players events from mtgpulse (plus crawled back from the old HL Grand Prix that didn't appear on mtgpulse) to have the mtgtop8 database : http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=HIGH

If you don't like the archetype names I've chosen, we can of course change that (when you have a consensus about the names, as I said ^^). I know I haven't updated mtgtop8 since 2015, it's mainly because I'm waiting for the webmaster to put Highlander on the main page. As for now you can submit a Highlander event, but can't access the database if you don't have this link. This will be fixed very soon now.

If you like the mtgtop8 rendering, there will be a possibility in the future (but in a little more time...) to become an admin of the "Highlander" part of motgtop8 if you want. But there is one thing that will not be possible, and that you're discussing here : having more than aggro / control / combo. Sorry guys, this won't be possible.

If you're interested, just let me know.

You could view German Highlander as a specific case of Canadian Highlander where every banned card has 8 points and other cards have 0 points :p

I contacted guys from Canada, who began to send some top8s. Because it's more readable with card links rather than with just names on their blog, here are the first decklists from their format :

http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=CHL

Just to say that Duel Commander and French EDH are two different names for the same format

For what it's worth, I would like to say that in French Duel Commander, there was the same issue of "it's not a powerful deck, nobody plays it" with Zur, the enchanter. This commander is now banned, because it's too much powerful (in the three possible decklists : Reanimator, Control or General-focused). The deck was not played at the beginning (or played with bad decklists), until someone took it to a major event with a good list, won, and everybody started to copy the decklist (nobody took the Reanimator decklist, though, because nobody could netdeck it, so when it was showed, everybody started to go for Oloro Reanimator... guess what happened). Then everybody figured out that it was that powerful.

So maybe the argument "it's not played" is not a good one, especially when talking about a format where a big event has only 100/150 people ! In French Duel Commander we have one pro player (Guillaume Wafo-Tapa) who designed 3 decklists, every decklist was original, and every decklist was in top8 when he (or one of his friends) played it. Well. If there was enough people like him, we could really look at top8s and say "this is too much powerful" or "this is ok". But since this doesn't happen (well, I've read that some HL players also have results in other formats, but still they are not the majority and I don't think they are top pro players), you have to admit that maybe there is a best decklist out there, which haven't been in top8 yet because nobody figured it out (or nobody has the money to buy te deck, or it's too hard to play, as you wrote), but still, which has to be stopped with the banhammer.

So I don't know about Tolarian Academy, but keep in mind that with only 100/150 people, that's not enough to see fast what is really too much powerful !

As for other cards, I posted before, but apparently it has gone unnoticed

Hi everyone,

I tried to go on http://www.wizards-well.de/ to check the next Highlander tournaments, but unfortunately the information is not yet online for next monthes.

I remember that the shop owner told me, in december, that it was the first saturday of every month. Is that still the case ? If so, I won't be able to come on february, the 7th but I might be able to come on march, the 7th. Is it possible to give me that information please ?

* your a) occurs a lot of times, sure, we all agree there are cards which are really bad, because it's easy to find strictly superior ones (even if I just love the drawing of Bear Cub, I won't play it)

* your b) is tricky, because there is the manabase issue, the metagame issue, etc. which, for me, don't allow much cards in the "objectively good" pot. Take Brainstorm for example, guys will tell "omg just play it if you play blue". Well, maybe not if I can't play a lot of shufflers. I don't think there are much cards which are auto-include. Even basic lands for example are not auto include (in Duel Commander I play Abzhan with only one basic - ok I play many elves)

* your c) is what happens most of the time, and was my point. I'm really saying that it's relative. I prefer playing a card I believe in rather than a card I see in many decks, and that never made me think when I saw it in a match "wow, what a play, I like it !"

I wasn't talking about "pet deck" which is, I think, a bad choice in general in big events (but a good choice in general in small events).

I was really in the "card that works for me" situation. For ex. I play darkblast in the sideboard of Robots in Modern, and it's one of the best cards for me (made me a few dollars @ GP Lyon), even though nobody plays it. I just like this card a lot, and I'm able to make situations in which it just win games. For ex. :

* Darkblast + Canonist => gg against Infect.
* Darkblast + Tarmo battle => gg.
* Darkblast @ upkeep, dredge, Darkblast => kills your x/2 and you maybe didn't see it coming.
* Darkblast + Delve...

This is a card in which I believe, and which passes the cut in most cases (well, it doesn't pass the cut in Duel Commander because the metagame is too control and it's a dead card in too much cases). Still, I see that this conviction is not very well shared by others. I don't care, it works for me )

When you like a card, it's not a problem when you draw it at the wrong time. When you don't like a card, and you draw it at a bad timing, you'll be psychologically tilted. It makes a whole lot of difference, because Magic has its psycho side I think.

In fact your debate is really interesting, and can be summed up in a more global debate :

* When building, is there a "theoretical best" deck (in a given metagame, of course) or is there only a "personal best" deck, which is only suited to you ?

Sam Black thinks it's relative to you. You like your cards, you do well with them :
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27628_Make-The-Right-Play-For-You.html

Craig Wescoe thinks there is a best deck, and you should adapt to play it well :
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11578

I believe that it's relative to you. For example I really hate Hymn to Tourach in Abzhan tempo, because for me the deck is all about destroying the mana base, and if you destroy the manabase of your opponent he can't play his spells, so there is no need to discard him for two manas and doing nothing else (you're playing aggro, you need to build your board presence !). Usually noone agrees with me, but when I do have that card in hand, it never does magical things. Either I prefer playing something else on turn2, and then on turn3 my opponent has nothing interesting left in hand, either i play it and discard cards I don't care...

So everyone should play cards he likes, be good with them, and be happy ! :p

For Chain of Vapor, I don't know if in Highlander Aluren is a viable choice, but I've been playing Aluren in Legacy for quite a long time, and it was one of my best cards. I have Aluren on the board, so 4 lands, and bouncing 5 times my creatures makes me win every time I do it !

Everyone seems interested in data since the mulligan rule change. No problem, here you go :

http://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=HIGH

Just a few thoughts from a Duel Commander player (I'm currently writing an article - in french sorry - about the differences in Highlander / Duel Commander banlists).


1. Fastbond is legal in Duel Commander since a lot of time now. Fastbond is really better when you have 30 life and a high-casting cost commander to cast (Maelstrom Wanderer for example). But even with that, it's not broken. Sure it wins games on turn 1 (Land, Fastbond, Land, Land, Lotus Cobra, Bounceland, Cast Commander, gg) but this can't be done in Highlander (no commander !). And if you really fear Zuran Orb + Fastbond + Crucible, just add some Naturalize-like effects to your deck, it's a 3 card combo with only enchantments / artifacts !

So I really think you should unban it (but maybe I miss something)


2. Natural Order : no, don't unban it ! Winning T3 just because you sac'ed an elf to get Titan or Terastodon isn't really interesting... (plus you could fetch Protean Hulk too and get this combo deck a really powerful outlet)


3. Entomb : we have it legal in Duel Commander, and yes sometimes it wins too early... but wait, we have that "spoils mulligan" rule which allows to keep "land + entomb" and see 4 other cards to get a reanimate-like. So with the normal mulligan you have, maybe it's worth testing. I really don't know, you should test a reanimator build with Entomb. Even with a spoils mulligan, it's under 10% of having Entomb + Reanimator on turn 2/3. So yes, it will make some free wins, but Back to Basics or Wasteland + Sinkhole too, and it's not easy to have it early with normal mulligan


4. Mystical Tutor : I don't see why you would ban it :
* if you lose to Price of Progress and don't want to see two copies of it in your opponent's deck it's your problem, not the banlist's one
* if you fear Miracles, ban Sensei's Divining Top instead ! :p [ok, I'm a bit exaggerating, but not that much]


5. On Stoneforge Mystic I really don't know. But a similar question that comes to my mind is : why do you have Skullclamp banned ? As far as I understand your format :
* Weenie White would be very much improved. Well, the weakest deck being improved, not a problem
* Other aggro deck usually don't play many elves, they prefer having many 4-mana silver bullets
* Combo and Control don't care.

So I don't know but maybe at least one of those two cards could be unbanned in my opinion, unless I miss something.

Yeah I'd love to come back ! I don't have my schedule yet for january the 3rd, but I will definitely come if I'm around.

Until then, good luck for the GP !

Hello,

Now the "Topcards" tool is working properly. You can for example see that, as Maqi showed in his excel spreadsheet ( http://www.magicplayer.org/forum/index.php?topic=895.0 ), Kitchen Finks is the most "non fetch / non Wasteland" played card. Interesting !

You can access it on the mtgtop8 Highlander page, by clicking on the "Would you like to know more ?" link, which leads to http://www.mtgtop8.com/topcards?f=HIGH&meta=89

For the moment, Highlander is still not reachable from the home page nor from the scrolling menu of the "Search" page.

I also created some archetypes, hope it's better like that. Feel free to post Highlander events via the submit box if you think it's a good tool !