Hey there!
Here's my report from last weekend's Highlander GP 8 (http://highlanderforum.kilu.de/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=135).
Hope you like it!
Quote from: Maqi on 03-04-2011, 10:51:32 PM
Hope you like it!
Yes i really do...although that draw in round 2 turned out quite harsh for me so i faced a lot of bad control-matchups in the draw-bracket afterwards ;) ;D
Congratz for your performance and thanks for your support and content.
I had been given all the decklists, whitout the Top8. So I can tell you who played which deck. With the decklists the seatings were included but not the final standings. So the number in the lists mean the alphabetical number not the final standings.
Number Name Deck Archetype
1. Al-Saidi, Jonny UG-Midrange Midrange
2. Barzen, Markus 5C-Oath-Staxx Control
3. Becker, Daniel 5C-Alara-aggro Aggro
4. Below, Andre RG-Beats Aggro
5. Brenndörfer, Paul Boros Aggro
6. Brunno, Valentino Mono Blue Control Control
7. Collinet, Patrick Naya-Zoo Aggro
8. Demel, Kai MonoG-Elves-Eldrazi-Ramp Midrange
9. Dettling, Jan 5C-Oath-Staxx Control
10. Diefenbach, Claus RDW Aggro
11. Doll, Matthias BG-Midrange-Control Control
12. Dubernell, Robin MonoU-ExpeditionMap-Artifacts Control
13. Ehrle,Philip 5C-Alara-aggro Aggro
14. Erich, Vincent 5C-Oath-Control Control
15. Eichenauer, Markus Naya-Zoo Aggro
16. Euler,Andre 5C-Alara-aggro Aggro
17. Fischer,Jürgen Naya-Zoo Aggro
18. Fischer, Sven Bant-Midrange-Control Control
19. Flimkert, Sven GWB-PatternRectorHulk-Combo Combo
20. Frenster, Jochen MonoU-Artifacts Control
21. Frerichs, Jürgen RDW Aggro
22. Frings, Reiner BW-Control Control
23. Gehring, Peter Naya Zoo Aggro
24. Grohmann, Jonas 4C-Elves Aggro
25. Grossmayer, Christian RB-aggro Aggro
26. Hauck, Christian 4C-Blood-Midrange Midrange
27.Heinsius, Matthias Zur-Esper-Control Control
28. Heiser, Jan BW-Control Control
29. Hinkel, Thomas Mythic-Bant-Midrange Midrange
30. Hoffman, Dennis 5C-Planeswalker-Staxx Control
31. Hoyer, Roland 4C-Domain-aggro Aggro
32. Iacono, Giuseppe RGB-Valakut-Ramp Midrange
33. Januchowski, Fabian White-Weenie Aggro
34. Kenfeld, Simon Esper-Control Control
35. Keupp, Andreas UW-Control Control
36. Klöcker, Mario Esper-Control Control
37. Korbel Jochen 5C-Alara-Aggro Aggro
38.Krause, Jacob Bant-aggro Aggro
39. Lanigra, Marc Bant-Control Control
40. Lauter, Alban Bant-Control Control
41. Lehmann, Ronald UR-Counterburn Control
42. Link, Matthias URg-Control Control
43. Lorenz, Andreas MonoU-Artifacts-Control Control
44. Lorenz, Konstantin Naya-Zoo Aggro
45. Luposchainsky, Simon MonoU-Control Control
46. Mielke, Fabian Bant-Midrange-Control Midrange
47. Muench, Jan UWR-Planeswalker-Control Control
48. Neubert, Thilo Boros Aggro
49. Niederhausen, Martin UW-Control Control
50. Oberbörsch, Benjamin 4C-Control Control
51. Ortmann, Bjoern Big-Bant-Control Control
52. Ozdeman, Enis UR-Counterburn Control
53. Pieler, Martin Boros Aggro
54. Quade, Christoph Naya-Zoo Aggro
55. Reddien, Gerd BG-Infect-aggro Aggro
56. Reich, Sebastian UG-Midrange Midrange
57. Richter, Patrick 4C-Control Control
58. Riehm, Oliver UGB-Reanimator Combo
59. Rölle, Christian UR-Counterburn Control
60. Romahn, Niklas Captain-America-Control Control
61. Salten, Oliver Mono-Red-Goblins Aggro
62. Schmidt, Christian Captain-America-Control Control
63. Schneewind, Sebastian Naya-Zoo Aggro
64. Schumann, Rene Naya-Zoo Aggro
65. Schumann, Timo RDW-Sligh Aggro
66. Schumann, Tino 5C-Control Control
67. Silny, Andre Bant-Midrange-Control Midrange
68. Stadler, Florian Naya-Zoo Aggro
69. Stahl, Gerry UWb-Esper-Control Control
70. Stein, Nikolai MonoG-Eldrazi-Ramp Midrange
71. Stein, Sascha UGB-Channel-Combo Combo
72. Steube, Sebastian RG-Beats Aggro
73. Stief, Maximillian Dark-Bant-Control Control
74. Stier, Thomas 4C-Blood-Toolbox-Midrange Midrange
75. Stührmann, Stefan WURB-Staxx Control
77. Terp, Patrick GW-Elves Aggro
78. Thiemann, Kai 4C-Blood-Midrange Midrange
79. Tschakert, Tobias UWBr-Control Control
80. Tzscheuschner, Daniel 4C-Goodstuff Midrange
81. Viehmann, Sebastian BG-Ramp Midrange
82. Von Der Heyde, Mathias 5C-Alara-aggro Aggro
83. Vonderberg, Sven M 4C-Oath-Control Control
84. Wertenbruch, Sacha RB-Goblins Aggro
85. Wieske, Oliver GRU-Valakut Midrange
86. Wigge, Mathias Bant-Control Control
87. Wilhelm, Michael 5C-EyeoftheStorm-Control Control
88. Wolf, Tobias Esper-Control Control
89. Zanotti, Danilo Naya-Zoo Aggro
90. Zohren, Cedric Naya-Zoo Aggro
--> Metagame Breakdown:
33x Aggro = 36,7%
14x Midrange = 15,6%
40x Control = 44,4%
3x Combo = 3,3%
Nice Job and Thx alot!!
I just wanted to ask, if we maybe can define "control", because I had yesterday a diskussion and different people have different defination of "control". It is just the question, where we need to make the cut between midrange and control.
for example: I think I know patrick richters version of his 4c deck because I used to play a pretty similar build, but I would rather define it as a Midrange deck rather then control.
Personal I define control as a Deck which doesn t try to make pressure and wins later on. Like the Mono Blue decks or so on. I mean you got maybe more information then me, just wanted to point that out :)
Quote from: Payron on 06-04-2011, 10:33:45 AM
Nice Job and Thx alot!!
I just wanted to ask, if we maybe can define "control", because I had yesterday a diskussion and different people have different defination of "control". It is just the question, where we need to make the cut between midrange and control.
for example: I think I know patrick richters version of his 4c deck because I used to play a pretty similar build, but I would rather define it as a Midrange deck rather then control.
Personal I define control as a Deck which doesn t try to make pressure and wins later on. Like the Mono Blue decks or so on. I mean you got maybe more information then me, just wanted to point that out :)
Aggro is a strategy that aims to win by producing maximum damage output in the shortest number of turns. This strategy often places a heavy emphasis on using creatures as efficient damage sources. Aggro strategies can be slow and relentless or fast and ruthless, in both cases attempting to overwhelm the opponent's defenses and reduce them to 0 life.
Control is a strategy that attempts to interfere with, prevent, deny, or otherwise cancel the opponent's actions. It attempts to establish a superior board position and then use that position to win.
Aggro-Control is a strategy that combines efficient creature-based damage (aggro) with heavy disruption elements (control).
Thats the usual definition..
Its still pretty hard to decide which deck belongs to which categorie, because in my opinion, creatures combine efficient creature damage with disruption these days (quasali pridemage, tidehollow, sower, wickerborn elder, glen elendra etc). Creatures get more and more control+aggro in one. But thats just my opinion. Hope i could help.
I think it also depends on whether you aim to kill the opponent through (board)control or beatdown. Although most control decks kill with creatures it does not mean that those are Aggro-decks imo. Playing a creature based UG-deck for example with lots of disruption (counter, bounce etc pp) a high manacurve and rampspells doesnt make it controllish, because your aim is to win due to creatures and their power. This would probably be an example of a typical Midrange-deck or mb Aggro-Control. I don't think these decks should be count as "Control" because they follow a startegy which is called "Aggro", although they got both aspects (aggro+control). IMO typical Control-decks are sth like UW-Control, Stax, Mono-U, 5CC, MBC etc because they do not aim to kill the opponent through beatdown (well ofc sometimes it's the best you can do..) but with controlling the board. They are trying to slow down fast decks, trying to get into a good boardposition with cardadvantage (trading 1 for 2 etc).
I think everybody got a different view on what is Aggro and what is Control but just because creatures are getting stronger and stronger and gaining "Control"-abilities as addition to their good body doesn't make those decks more controllish, just better : )
I just feel like I saw a lot more bant aggro control, rather to call them real control decks ... so I think the count of pure control decks is lower and there are a lot more midrange decks.
Thats exactly my opinion to control, aggro control and aggro, thank you Marc.
It´s just hard to stuff every single one of the 90 decks into a certain basket... Myself (Andreas Keupp finishing 10th due to tiebreakers 16 Points) used to play UW Aggro-Control. At first sight though you could also regard it to be UW Control. So you would have to examine each list very - and I mean VERY closeley - so this isn´t a problem of examining the different strategie but a problem of time and personal understanding of a deck - in my opinion.
Quote from: meteora on 06-04-2011, 05:44:46 PM
It´s just hard to stuff every single one of the 90 decks into a certain basket... Myself (Andreas Keupp finishing 10th due to tiebreakers 16 Points) used to play UW Aggro-Control. At first sight though you could also regard it to be UW Control. So you would have to examine each list very - and I mean VERY closeley - so this isn´t a problem of examining the different strategie but a problem of time and personal understanding of a deck - in my opinion.
ofc it is not obv at first sight which of the (for example) Bant-decks are Control and which are Aggro but i guess most (or even all) Bant-versions are more Aggro than Control. Well this goes maybe just for me but I would make a clear difference between Bant and UWG/g-Control to point out the Archetype. The manacurve and number of cheap 1-3 CC creatures would be the first thing to check whether a deck is Bant or UWG-Control but that's another topic.
Nobody is critizising GoblinPiledriver for his work (good job btw) but it should be clear that the meta is a bit different from the "33x Aggro = 36,7% 14x Midrange = 15,6% 40x Control = 44,4% 3x Combo = 3,3%" depending on peoples point of view.
Aggro decks are proactive, control decks are reactive.
Quote from: Nastaboi on 07-04-2011, 01:53:22 PM
Aggro decks are proactive, control decks are reactive.
I agree. But isn't it also the case, that the same deck can be played proactive/reactive depending on the situation/matchup/opponents deck? Let's take UG, vs Aggro you are the reactive one (in most cases) and vs Control you are the proactive one (as well only most of the times, not always).
For me for example the whole Top 8 consists of different types of Aggrodecks, even if I consider UG and as well the 4C-Pile played by Firestarter as Aggro-Control to make clear that there are no true Controldecks.. but I guess it's redundant to talk about such points of view because it doesn't make any difference anyways :D
I think you are right about the nature of UG. Its a classic role. Control vs Aggro and Aggro vs Control.