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MfG Markus

Hi
Here I’d like to introduce another decktype which performed pretty well at the last HL GP. It was played by Thomas Pittner and finished 7th after swiss and was stopped by Nico’s Hulk Flash in the semifinal. The deck was setup really well for the metagame and I think it still has great potential after the last bannings. I play a similar deck myself and think it’s worth a discussion in this forum.
The deck is an Aggro-Control-Deck and is very flexible. First of all I’d like to post the decklist and explain some keycards and point out some diffrences between this deck and other Aggro/Aggrocontrol decks.

Lands:     5x Forest     2x Plains     7x Island     Tundra     Tropical Island     Savannah     Wastelad     Treetop Village     Faerie Conclave     Breeding Pool     Rishadan Port     Mishra’s Factory     Tranquil Thicket     Lonely Sandbar     Yavimaya Hollow     Horizon Canopy     Terrmorphic Expanse           Polluted Delta     Windsweapt Heath     Flooded Strand     Wooded Foothills     Creatures:     Squee, Goblin Nabob     Stonecloaker     Aven Mindcensor     Kataki, War’s Mage

Harmonic Sliver     Loxodon Hierarch     Trygon Predator     Mystic Snake     Anurid Brushhopper     River Boa     Llanowar Elves     Spike Weaver        Viridian Shaman     Hermit Druid     Eternal Witness     Genesis     Wall of Roots     Birds of Paradise     Uktabi Orangutan     Sakura Tribe Elder     Troll Ascetic     Tarmogoyf     Wild Mongrel     Ravanous Baloth     Fyndhorn Elves     Phantom Centaur     Waterfront Bouncer     Man-o’-War     Serendib Efreet     Venser, Shaper Savant     Looter il-Kor     Wonder     Thought Courier

Spells:     Swords to Plowshares     Enlightened Tutor     Solitary Confindement     Eladamri’s Call     Scrabbling Claws     Phyrexian Furnace     Aether Vial     Null Rod     Crystal Shard     Mox Diamond     Worldly Tutor     Call of the Herd     Life from the Loam     Survival of the Fittest     Back to Basics     Condescend     Gush     Brainstorm     Intuition     Upheaval           Gifts Ungiven     Wipe Away     Counterspell     Force of Will     Mana Leak     Deep Analysis     Forbid     Fact or Fiction     Syncopate     Misdirection     Psionic Blast     Mana Drain     Circular Logic     Impulse     Strategic Planning     Dissipate

So that was it. In the following I’ll explain some important cards and some problems this deck has in my opinion. Maybe you can comment my decklist and give some advice. Thanks

Lands:

• There is nothing special in this deck exept that there it has many basic lands to support Back to Basics which is one of the more imporant cards for this deck. Especially when the metagame changes to more control decks.
• In matchups vs. other aggro decks Yavimaya Hollow is very powerful.
• I don’t like the Expanse that much but the fact that there are only two basic plains in the deck makes it viable.
• Thomas played Bazaar of  Baghdad in his Top8 version but I don’t have one so I can’t tell anything about it.

Creatures:

• Squee supports Survival of the Fittest and Solitary Confinement. Most often Squee is the first creature you fetch with Survival.
• I considered to play Basking Rootwalla and Arrogant Wurm but without Survival they are not good enough. What is your opinion on that? I would prefer Rootwalla if I have to choose one of them.
• Hermit Druid is really good against control decks because he gets the “graveyardaction” going and guarantees the next landdrop.
• Trygon Predator is one of the cards which do work extremly well against Stax. Thomas deck was extremly good adjusted to the metagame. He won the quaterfinal against Patrick Richter even though Patrick had Mishra’s Workshop in both games. Other powerful creatures against Stax are Kataki, Viridian Shaman, Uktabi Orangutan and Aven Mindcenor.
• Furthermore Aven Mindcensor makes a great job against control decks. It “counters” Intuition, Gifts and other tutor effects and sometimes even denials an early fetchland.
• I added Anurid Brushhopper because it’s a good creature against control and it’s very hard to kill for your opponent.
• I cutted Terferi because it’s pretty hard to cast but. He’s really good when he hits the table but sometimes it was in my hand till the end of the game. Has anyone some other thoughts on that?
  

All in all the white splash makes the deck much better than a “normal” UG deck. It makes the matchup against Stax and other control decks much better. In addition to that it makes the matchups against aggro decks better because you ave access to Solitary Confinement, Loxodon Hierarch and Enlightened Tutor.

Spells:

• Enlightened Tutor is great against ervery deck. You can search Back to Basics against control decks, Survival of the Fittest in mirror matches or even Solitary Confinement against RDW.
• Aether Vial is important against control decks and in combination with Survival it can get you a fast victory.
• Null Rod is most often an “autowin” against stax. It was one of the cards that made Thomas’s deck so powerful. But I don't know if Null Rod is still necessary after the last bannings. What do you think. But maybe it's better to cut kataki.
• Survival of the Fittest is one of the keycards in this decks. It gives access to Genesis, Wonder and all other solutions needed in several Matchups. In only two or three turns survival can change the whole game.
• I don’t like Voidslime that much so I cutted it in my version of the deck. I think of putting it back into the deck cause it’s such a flexible card even though I don’t like the manacost.
• I also added Psionic Blast and Strategic Plannings. I’m just testing them and so far they do quite well.
• Maybe I should add Crop Rotation. It’s not as great as it is in a 5CC deck but it can search Wasteland, Yavimaya Hollow or Treetop Village. Do you think Crop Rotation is good enough?

Ok that was it. I hope we can get a nice discussion going about cardchoices, deck strategie or anything else about this decktype. In the next week I’d like to post a similar article on RG Beatz. I hope some of you read my posts J.

Thanks
Markus

I think Goyf is much better than War Beast. There are some Decks like WW/WWu/RDW/UG that don't play many nonbasics. So War Beast will be a dead cards agaist these decks. And even in Control Mirrors Creatures are not that important. So I don't see a good reason to play it.

Thanks
Markus

I like Wall of Blosoms more than Court Husar because it has 4 toughness ans is just 2 mana. I think in the three mana slot are better cards. Furthermore there are few burnspells to handle Wall. So ist most often the 2:1 Trade vs RG Beatz for example.

But what do you think about Tarmogyf. It's such a good creature so I think it belongs in here. Or?

Thanks
Markus

I'd like to play via MWS.
Maybe we can get in contact via ICQ.
Nr. 143735794

Thanks
Markus

• Maybe you are right with Abeyance. I made some changes in my deck yesterday. I added Electrolyze, Mind Stone and Mystical Teachings for Counterbalance, Scroll Rack an Demonfire.
• I cutted Kor Haven cause it's just ot good enough against aggro. I prefer a colored land instead.
• Furthermore I think Necromany is a good idea. I'll test it and then give some more feedback.
• Lightningbolt maybe better than Electrolyse cause it works with scepter. But the cardsdraw is really good.
• I don't like Putrify and Mortify that much. I can't really tell why but I think tehy are not necessary in the deck.

Thanks
Markus

Hi
Here are some new points on your thoughts:

• I also thought about Aeon Cronicler. He can make the Control vs Control matchups much better but seems to be a dead card against aggro decks. Maybe I'll try it instead of L. Angel.
• I don't think Starstorm is better than R. Earthquake. The only card that comes into my mind which starstorm could be better against is Decree of Justice. But in Control vs. Control you'll cycle Starstorm and don't keep it because you fear the decre I think.
• Maybe I should cut Faery Conclave but I like the Manlands a lot because if you take the boardcontrol you want to have fast damage. There's not always a good creature in your hand to kill the opponent, so the lands do a very good job.
• 3 basic lands are enough with solemn. I just wanted to say that L. Angel for example is a much better Turn 4 drop than Solemn. Even Aeon Cronicler is better than Solemn I think.
• I don't agree with your opinion on Force of Will. It's just always a really powerful card. Pact is worse than Force because it's impossible to cast Pact in the early game and in later turns you can also hardcast FoW.
• Yeah the Mage is powerful with some artifact. I think if you play Tolaria west you should test Zuran Orb/Ivory Tower/E. Explosives and Phyrexian Furnace or at least some of them. I'm sure you'll like that guy.
• f you play Gifts and Intuition I can't understand why you like Concentrate more than Deep Analysis. It's just a cards you can search with gifts beside Life and some lands. I like it a lot. And even the 3 lives for Flashback are not that bad against aggro. The risk of not flashbacking it is worth drawing only two instead of 3 cards.
• And last but not least Collective Restaint is really good against RG. But against WW sometimes it just sucks against Armageddon, Ravages of War or Cataclysm. Furthermore it's not that good against other creature based control decks because in the late game your opponent can afford it paying 5 to attack with Hierarch for example.

Thanks
Markus

I play a 5C Control deck myself and hope I can help you a bit.
First of all I like your decklist and think it is pretty good, but according to Frank I think some important cards are missing. Especially Life from the Loam is such a powerful card that I think it is a "must play".

Below I'll post my decklist and try to give some reasons for the cardchoices:

Lands:     Underground Sea     Volcanic Island     Tundra     Tropical Island     Plateau     Scrubland     Savannah     Taiga     Bayou     Badlands     Windsweapt Heath     Polluted Delta     Flooded Strand     Wooded Foothills     Bloodstaind Mire     Watery Grave     Hallowed Fountain     Breeding Pool     Stean Vents     Godless Shrine     Karakas     Flagstones of Trokair     Tolaria West     Rishadan Port     Wasteland     Volrath's Stronghold     Academy Ruins     Maze of Ith     Kor Haven     Mishra's Factory     Fairy Conclave     Nantuko Monestary     Secluded Steppe     Lonely Sandbar     Plains     Island     Snow-Convered Island

Creatures:     Loxodon Hierarch     Shadowmage Infiltrator     Trygon Predator     Lightning Angel     Etched Oracle     Wall of Blossoms     Eternal Witness     Flametongue Kavu     Eternal Dragon     Academy Rector     Exalted Angel     Tinket Mage     Meloku the Clouded Mirror     Spells:     Demonfire     Rolling Earthquake     Life from the Loam     Crop Rotation     Vindicate     Fire // Ice     Hide // Seek     Lightning Helix     Pernicious Deed     Absorb     Darkblast     Diabolic Edict     Damnation     Demonic Tutor     Tainted Pact

Brainstorm     Intuition     Deep Analysis     Mana Leak     Evasive Action     Worldly Counsel     Stroke of Genius     Force of Will     Decree of Silence     Muddle the Mixture     Counterbalance     Remand     Repulse     Impuls     Mana Servance     Fact or Fiction        Mana Drain                       Gifts Ungiven     Counterspell     Enlighted Tutor     Tithe     Swords to Plowshares     Seal of Cleansing     Decree of Justice     Moat     Wrath of God     Gilded Lotus     Goblin Charbelcher     Zuran Orb     Scroll Rack     Isochron Scepter     Mox Diamond     Senseis Divining Top     Phyrexian Furnace     Engineered Explosives

Ok this is the complete list. There are some cards in the deck for testing . I hope some of you can give me some advice or feedback on me list (and I know there are 102 cards in the deck J I could not decide which one to cut). I’d like to some reasons for my cardchoices and try to point out some critical cards.

Lands:

• I think two cycle lands are enough but I consider playing Horizon Canopy to support Life from the Loam.
• I’m just testing Academy Ruis and so far I like it a lot in Control vs. Cntrol matchups. But I did not play against aggro decks enough to say whether the fact that it produces colorless mana is a problm or not.
• Furthermore I’m thinking about adding Treetop Village, but I don’t like the fact that it comes into play tapped and producing green mana.
• Tolaria West is also in the “testing phase”. I try to find out whether it is good enough to search cards like Maze, Engineered Explosives, Zuran Orb and Volrath's Stronghold or not. I would appreciate if someone could post his results of testig here.

In your list Mythrandir I don’t really like the Mirage "Fetchlands" and Costal Tower because sometimes they are too slow. And I played Tabernacle for a long time and then decided to cut it, but I’m not sure about it. With Crop Rotation, Life from the Loam, Gifs and Intuiton it may be goog enough to get into the deck. Maybe you can tell me something about your results of testing it in different matchups.

Creatures:

• In my opinion Trinket Mage is a very powerful creature. It can fetch graveyardremoval, lifegain, Sensei's Diving Top or Explosives. You can also think about playing Pithing Needle against Survival, Penoptic MIrror or Seat of the Synod to fix your mana. But I don't think these two options are good enough
• Against aggro decks I like Wall of Blossoms but I think it’s more personal preferences.
• I don’t really like Solemn, but maybe it is good. It also supports the Academy Ruins quiet well so i should consider adding it again.
  

Also I think there are not enough creatures in the deck to make Teferi really powerful. My experience is that he cost too much and it’s not really worth protecing it when he hits the board. But again I’d like to hear your results on testing.
Last but not least I think Mystic Snake is not quiet good. For a creature it is too expensive and does not bring that much advantage against aggro decks and for a counter it’s too expenive. But I've also heard other opinons and think it depends on personal preferences.

Spells:
Here I'd like to discuss the differences and some cards I’m not sure about.

• Counterbalance is one those cards that I’m not sure about. Sometimes it performs quiet well and sometimes it sucks. I think it is just playable with a lot of “support cards” like Scroll Rack, Brainstorm, Top and Muddle the Mixture. I would be happy about other opinions and some help here. Thanks
• Card draw is another problem I think. I discussed it Frank via ICQ and I drew the conclusion to play Stroke of Genius, Fact or Fiction and Deep Analysis. I also considered playing Careful Consideration. What do you thins is best?
• The combo (Mana Servance and Goblin Charbelcher) got into the deck after I read the results of the tournament in Düsseldorf where a 5CC deck finished first playing these cards. I like the cards so far, but I’ll go on testing against aggro. Also Academy Ruins got into the deck because I’d like to support the combo a bit.
• Darkblast also got into the deck after Frank and I discussed it via ICQ. He thinks it’s very powerul against RDW and UG-Aggrocontrol versions. I tested against RG Beatz and  now I'm convinced that Darkblast ist really good.
• Zuran Orb is another card I’m testing. It’s not that powerful anymore after Balance has been banned. But the possibility to fetch it with Trinked Mage and Tolaria West seems good enough.

If there are other cards I forgot just ask me and I’ll try to give reasons for playing it.

I also agree with Frank that cards like Concentrate and Allied Strategies are not good enough to be in the deck. But I’m going to test All Suns Dawn. I also support Franks opinion that you better play some “cheap” counters like Mana Leak and Evasive Action in stead of  Dismiss and Undermine. Also Force of Will is missing in your deck.
I think Holistic Wisdom seems very powerful. But my experience showed that it’s not. Sometimes it’s just too slow or too hard to cast. The same thing is true for Debtors' Knell as well I think. Even though it can be really good with Academy Rector.
In times of massive Land Destruciton in decks like Stax or even in White Weenie decks Collective Restraint is a card I don’t like that much any more. I played it just some time ago and Frank conviced me to cut it.

Ok that was loooong post. I hope someone read it.
I look forward to your replies and hope for a good discussion about this decktype.

Thanks Markus

Hi
I'm just building an Oath-Stax deck myself. But I'm not sure which version isthe best at the moment. The banning from Talarian Acedemy hit the deck pretty hard. But I hope it's still competative.
Ok now I'd like to say something about your decklist.

1. I don't really like Tidespout Tyrant. I think Terravore, according to Hajo's GP deck would be the better choice. Or even Simic Sky Swollower. Terravor supperts the massive land desturction pretty well and is also pretty cheap with just 3 mana.

2. In my opinion cards like Future Sight, Mindslyer ane Decree of Silense are not good enough without Tollarian Academy. The deck can't produce that much mana any more and get such exploding starts afte an Armageddon. But I can't say which cards would be better in the deck. I hope I'll find out by testing some things.

3. Phyrexian Furnace and Srabbling Claws are better than Tormod's Crypt. This massive graveyard removal is not that good anymore. It was really good against TPS but this deck is not longer in the format. Against some decks Tormod's Crypt is a dead  card. So the other two artiacts can be "cycled".

4. Is Recoup relly that strong in this deck without Y. Will and Academy?

If you get some new ideas for the deck or if you got other testing resulte it would be nice if we can go on discussing the decklist.

Thanks
Markus

Hi
yeah I think a number around 34 is good even with these tutors and moxes. But I think for the correct number you need to test the deck in several different matchups.

Can u explain in a short post what exactly you want the deck to do. Cause on the first view I think it's dangerous just to play Survival and Mask. Nearly every deck has accsses to enchantment removal, countermagic or possibilities to handle one part of that combo.

Thanks
Markus

Hi,
first of all I think 27 lands is not enough for a 100 card deck. In my opinion you should play at least 34.
Befroe I'll go one commenting your list I've got a question.
What are ESG and SSG?

Thanks
Markus