U/B Control anyone ? [Help]

[Tabris]

I searched the forum for a classic U/B Deck, but didnt found anyhting decent. So I´ll post my suggestion for this kind of decktype, but I am not
satisfied and hope for some suggestions and improvements.

I think the deck is to reactive and unlike U/R its not able to finish the opponent off with some burnspells.

so here is the list:


// Lands
    1 [MR] Vault of Whispers
    1 [FUT] Tolaria West
    1 [10E] Underground River
    11 [UNH] Swamp
    1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
    1 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
    1 [MR] Seat of the Synod
    1 [TE] Wasteland
    1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    12 [UNH] Island
    1 [DK] Maze of Ith
    1 [OV] Library of Alexandria
    1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 [A] Underground Sea

// Creatures
    1 [OD] Shadowmage Infiltrator
    1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
    1 [FD] Trinket Mage
    1 [LRW] Wydwen, the Biting Gale
    1 [P3] Lu Xun, Scholar General
    1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
    1 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
    1 [EVE] Glen Elendra Archmage
    1 [UD] Masticore
    1 [MR] Solemn Simulacrum
    1 [TSP] Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
    1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
    1 [ZEN] Sphinx of Jwar Isle

// Spells
    1 [TSP] Ancestral Vision
    1 [SH] Mox Diamond
    1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
    1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    1 [10E] Pithing Needle
    1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    1 [DIS] Spell Snare
    1 [SC] Stifle
    1 Mind Twist
    1 [FD] Condescend
    1 [GP] Repeal
    1 [ARB] Thopter Foundry
    1 [A] Animate Dead
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 [TO] Chainer's Edict
    1 [MOR] Bitterblossom
    1 [DD2] Daze
    1 [ZEN] Into the Roil
    1 [UL] Miscalculation
    1 [RAV] Remand
    1 [SH] Mana Leak
    1 [RAV] Dimir Signet
    1 [MR] Talisman of Dominance
    1 [UL] Grim Monolith
    1 [FUT] Sword of the Meek
    1 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (2)
    1 [CS] Counterbalance
    1 [RAV] Muddle the Mixture
    1 [LG] Mana Drain
    1 [DD2] Counterspell
    1 [ARB] Soul Manipulation
    1 [M10] Jace Beleren
    1 [EX] Forbid
    1 [MI] Dissipate
    1 [VI] Necromancy
    1 [RAV] Compulsive Research
    1 [TE] Propaganda
    1 [US] Back to Basics
    1 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
    1 [IN] Undermine
    1 [LRW] Cryptic Command
    1 [TO] Mutilate
    1 [A] Control Magic
    1 [LG] The Abyss
    1 [FNM] Fact or Fiction
    1 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
    1 [TO] Deep Analysis
    1 [ON] Future Sight
    1 [MM] Misdirection
    1 [MM] Bribery
    1 [AL] Force of Will
    1 [ALA] Tezzeret the Seeker
    1 [UD] Treachery
    1 [VI] Desertion
    1 [ZEN] Sorin Markov
    1 [US] Time Spiral
    1 [SC] Decree of Pain

-105 cards...which means I have to cut 5 cards.
-Maybe adding manlands ?
-Decree and Sorin are to expensive but I dont have much kill-options same is true for Sphinx of Jwar Isle
-Jace, the Mindscupltor will be added as soon WWK is online

[Nastaboi]

These are the cards I could see having cut (not in order):

    1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale  -not tapping to mana hurts
    1 [DK] Maze of Ith
    1 [LRW] Wydwen, the Biting Gale
    1 [P3] Lu Xun, Scholar General  -slow, try Concentrate
    1 [ZEN] Sphinx of Jwar Isle   -no need for finishers
    1 [SH] Mox Diamond  -just awful
    1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt   -I'd play Relic + new land
    1 [10E] Pithing Needle   - OK /w Tezz
    1 [SC] Stifle   - just bad
    1 [A] Animate Dead   - does not fit
    1 [TO] Chainer's Edict  - I pref instant pinpoint removal to this
    1 [MOR] Bitterblossom   - dmg will get you and no synergies
    1 [DD2] Daze   - you want to make your land drops
    1 [UL] Grim Monolith   - just no
    1 [FE] Hymn to Tourach - BB cost too taxing
    1 [CS] Counterbalance - bad in HL
    1 [ARB] Soul Manipulation - other counters are more reliable
    1 [VI] Necromancy
    1 [TE] Propaganda - pref. removal to this
    1 [IN] Undermine - there are better counters
    1 [TO] Mutilate - where's Damnation?
    1 [MM] Bribery - play like Meloku or something more reliable if you really want to
    1 [VI] Desertion - keeping 5 mana open not too easy
    1 [ZEN] Sorin Markov - expensive
    1 [US] Time Spiral - nullifies CA you have slowly gained
    1 [SC] Decree of Pain - expensive

Add: 7 fetchlands, Islands (remove Swamps), more stones, brainstorm, ponder, cheap removal (pact, doom blade, smother), Phyrexian Arena, anything I missed. Check out my Battle of Wits, it has like every playable U and B control card in it.

[marchhare]

cards i dont expect to help the deck that much in a strong meta: forbid, dissipate, undermine, bribary,(stifle); counterbalance (most opponents could simply play around it, it would be too often a dead card) mutilate seems to slow nowadays; into the roil and blossom fit better to an offensive deck (i can send u a U/B faery/rogue aggro control if u want), soulmanipulation, decree of pain

u could add: meloku (really good in ur deck), tombstalker, creeping tar pit (from wwk), cold eyes selkie (strong like finkel against blue control, and weak against aggro, as finkel), back 2 basics (one more reason to remove the artifact lands, there a weak spot against moon effects, random removal and b2b)..i couldnt find brainstorm !, maybe ponder cause ur playing many dependant cards and some combos and (not only therefore) fetchlands (many cards in ur deck would profit from them).

hope i could help u

[marchhare]

lol wrote my comment while nastaboi posted his  (repetition makes the master !)

[Tabris]

Ok, I´am trying to defend the choices:

-Tabernacle-I just play 13 creatures and its great againts elves, boros etc. its even possbile to produce mana with urborg
-Maze- HOW CAN I CUT THIS? its absolutly worth to miss a landdrop for this even its tutorable with tolaria
-Wydwen-I agree its not a must have, but its a solid blocker also can make a suprise attack vs planeswalker, but yeah probably will be dismissed
-Lu Xun- Well its like infiltrator but for 1 mana more..dont know could be cutted
-Sphinx- I dont need a finisher? so whats the plan with the deck then if i dont have any creatures
-Mox Diamond- I DONT SEE how this could be awful ? its so strong againts control bc you can have 2 mana in Round 1 even in lategame it can fullfill his role, to give an extra mana to explosives
-Bitterblossom-Well its good against aggro bc its working like a forcefield and vs control its producing many little threats, no? just for 2 mana
-Tormods Crypt-I will also add the WWK land (its tutorable with Expedition Map and Tolaria west) and maybe relic is better
-Needle- Its great with Tezz and also with Trinket mage...its so flexible and make it possbile for UB to counter some cards like planeswalker and lands etc.
Stifle-IS ONE OF THE BEST BLUE CARDS in highlander, its mana denial, its a counter for a lot of freaking mechanics (deed, explosives, witness etc. etc. etc.)
-Animate Dead- How can this not fit, if i am going to counter and destroy enemy creatures ?
-Daze-TO counter on Turn 1 and even in late game to have an suprise counter or another 0 mana gifts counter, is really important
-Grim Monolith- Well I agree with you but ive got some crazy plays with this artefact so..mh well see
-Hymn-BB is not the problem in this deck but its a little bit random, ill guess
-Counterbalance- Right its not that great in Highlander but I love this card, its very strong with senseis top (trinket mage, Tezzeret) and with brainstorm
-Soul Manipulation- I just see the 2for1 effect on this card. but since ive running not many creatures, its maybe not a good choice
-Necromancy-See animate dead
-Undermine-Well the 3 lifeloss is not important, i all agree with you
-Mutilate-Have i forgotten damnation? should be in the list, maybe massacre instead of mutilate
-Bribery-Meluko instead ? ...dont see how these two cards could take the same slot...Meloku is great but not on the same slot as bribery
-Desertion- Since i have no critters myself...i need the good ones from my opponent...but 5 mana is a lot.
-Sorin-As I said...to expensive
-Timespiral-Agreed
-Decree- I just see this on the 5 mana slot


I just thought I´ve added b2b..mh will be added, the artefact lands are there bc of tezzeret, no room for brainstorm, and yeah just forgotten the fetchlands

As I speaked with marchhare, i forgot to tell you that this deck should be usefull for multiplayer and the competetive fact is not so important.

[GoblinPiledriver]

So you searched the board for a classic UB-Controll. But there isn't a classic UB-Controll. Classic controll decks are UW-Controll, MBC, Mono-Blue.
The main problem is that black gives not the potential like white. Cards like Wrath o. G., Day o.J., Moat, Absorb are better then the black versions.
Academy Rector would also give access to Thopter Foundry.

[Tabris]

Rector search for enchantments.

[so_not]

lolwut no Psychatog?

[Tabris]

why is he any good ? I like him in reanimator ...but I dont see how i want to discard cards in UB...if i played a lot of counter and removal it would be good to remove them for him...but still 2cards for +1/+1 dont see any use for him.

[Nastaboi]

if i played a lot of counter and removal it would be good to remove them for him

Excuse me, but what else do you play in UB control if not a lot of counters and removal? Tog works like this: 1. Play your game. 2. Draw an play Psychatog. 3. By then, you should have enough cards in gy and hand to kill with just one swing. Even if you draw him early, he can still hold down any ground attacker for ever.

Some essentials I forgot: Duress, Thoughtseize, Mystical Teachings

[Tabris]

I dont see how a psychatog could be a vialable finisher. He got no evasion, need a lot of cards in the graveyard (if i dont want to discard my cards which are essential for me), dont have shroud or anything like this. Sure in a game which gets me 30 cards in my grave, he would be good (30 cards= +15/+15) but only if my opponent got nothing.

I see what your point is but I dont see him as a finisher. He is a decent blocker in some situations.

About the discard, I ll agree also with the teachings. Ive added it already in my real-life deck.

Btw: Nastaboi, pls contact Marchhare, its about the foils.

Ive updated the list: Some of your suggestions are included some are not (I ve already told why I want some choices)



// Lands
    1 [A] Underground Sea
    1 [ON] Polluted Delta
    1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
    10 [UNH] Swamp
    10 [UNH] Island
    1 [FUT] Tolaria West
    1 [ON] Flooded Strand
    1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    1 [DK] Maze of Ith                          (I dont see how this could possibly NOT BE in a control deck)
    1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale      (I run 13 creatures, most of them are tool creatures)
    1 [TE] Wasteland
    1 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
    1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
    1 [OV] Library of Alexandria
    1 [10E] Underground River
    1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog

// Creatures
    1 [OD] Shadowmage Infiltrator
    1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
    1 [FD] Trinket Mage
    1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
    1 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
    1 [P3] Lu Xun, Scholar General (constant card draw)
    1 [EVE] Glen Elendra Archmage
    1 [UD] Masticore
    1 [MR] Solemn Simulacrum
    1 [TSP] Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
    1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
    1 [CHK] Meloku the Clouded Mirror
    1 [ZEN] Sphinx of Jwar Isle   (He is a vialable Finisher, and I like the design, in old lists I would prefer a Morphling)
    1 [FUT] Tombstalker

// Spells
    1 [TSP] Ancestral Vision
    1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
    1 [SH] Mox Diamond           
    1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus    (Crypt is sometimes better, but I´ll guess this works also)
    1 [10E] Pithing Needle
    1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
    1 [SC] Stifle                  (still one of the best blue cards!!)
    1 [DIS] Spell Snare
    1 Mind Twist
    1 [GP] Repeal
    1 [FD] Condescend
    1 [ARB] Thopter Foundry
    1 [MOR] Bitterblossom          (Good agains aggro bc of the forcefield effect and also vs control, maybe a little fearie strategy (spellstutter, harbinger)
    1 [TO] Chainer's Edict         (Instant speed is good, but i am a huge fan of card advantage)
    1 [A] Animate Dead             (For me its a autoinclude in every black deck (except Skies and suicide) bc the creatures who died or countered are mine!
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 [ZEN] Into the Roil
    1 [DD2] Daze                (the missing land drop is it worth to counter something essential like vial, top, etc. on turn 1 also in the lategame counterwar)
    1 [UL] Miscalculation
    1 [RAV] Remand
    1 [SH] Mana Leak
    1 [RAV] Dimir Signet
    1 [FUT] Sword of the Meek
    1 [MR] Talisman of Dominance
    1 [RAV] Muddle the Mixture
    1 [DD2] Counterspell
    1 [LG] Mana Drain
    1 [M10] Jace Beleren
    1 [VI] Necromancy
    1 [US] Back to Basics
    1 [RAV] Compulsive Research
    1 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
    1 [LRW] Cryptic Command
    1 [TO] Mutilate             (discusable, still but I see this as a 2nd damnation)
    1 [PLC] Damnation
    1 [A] Control Magic
    1 [LG] The Abyss
    1 [WWK] Jace, the mindsculptor
    1 [TSP] Mystical Teachings
    1 [FNM] Fact or Fiction
    1 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
    1 [TO] Deep Analysis
    1 [ON] Future Sight
    1 [ALA] Tezzeret the Seeker
    1 [UD] Treachery
    1 [MM] Misdirection
    1 [MM] Bribery
    1 [AL] Force of Will
    1 [SC] Decree of Pain

[so_not]

Well you probably didn't play back in the day when Tog was all over the place. You might want to check these for starters:

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.aspx?x=mtgevent/ptla05/t8decks

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=sideboard/worlds02/t8decks

[Tabris]

I did played and I agree with you, that the atog is good and fits in some UB decks. But in my kind of deck, I just dont want to see to discard any cards (except I am flooded)or remove my entire graveyard for one swing. Bc hes is easy to block, remove, etc.

Clearly you rate this card from an idealistic view. If I draw him on turn 6 or 7 hes mayyybe able to pump once for a good block or attack and after that he is just a 1/3. Hes also a card which isnt good in blocking bc you dont want to use his abilty on defense.

Also the argument "back in 2002 this card was aweZOME" isnt a good one, bc back in the days, Juggernaut was good also was Morphling etc.

Old creatures arent exciting. Maybe i try him for some time and look if i am wrong.

[so_not]

About the last thing aggro decks want to see is a turn three Psychatog. You play like fetch, brainstorm or something, counter something, play tog and you will have a 4/5 blocker with just discarding 1 card. You want a classic UB-control. What is more classic than Tog (well Nether-go maybe)? I mean Tog is cheap, efficient, hard to remove and good against everything. What more could you want from a finisher?

[Mythrandir]

yeahh, a definitely yes on the tog.

Like the rest said. Cheap efficient and hard to kill (by burn/damage), with so many counter/removal/draw/fetches you're bound to have a full GY.