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[9]

Name/Nick: Marcel / Doks

How do you rate the banned-list on a scale from 1 to 10 (1=poor, 10=great)?

9 (For me, it's pretty close to perfect currently since it allows certain strong cards for every deck type and there are only a few debatable choices; future development (hello Academy!) should be taken into consideration though)

Which mulligan-rule do you prefer?

Free Mulligan

How do you rate the free mulligan on a scale from 1 to 10?

10. Imo, either you like it (10) or you don't (1). I think it has adressed a lot of the problems people criticized (greed decks, generally too low land count in all archetypes, less skill required to make a deck work when you can shape your starting hand etc.) which is a good thing.

How often do you play Highlander

Once per week.

How often have you played on a HL-GP / -Cup?

2 times.

Which cards are missing on the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Worldly Tutor: Either have these CMC 1 tutors allowed alltogether or ban them all (with the exception of the black one maybe). Each archetype profits tremendously from 1 or 2 of them, so why have them not all available / banned for fairness reasonings?  

True-Name Nemesis: This is debatable. Seeing that Stoneforge Mystic is banned, this guy seems banworthy, too. He is pretty decisive in the creature-based strategy matchup. Not so much vs control, but still. Should wait for future development.

Back to Basics, Blood Moon, Price of Progress: Pretty much all the common non-basic hate. I have not thought about it yet until I read the suggestions in this thread, but now that I think of it, there might be something true about it. And I say this as someone who loves himself some Izzet control. Although I like my opponents conceding to a well-timed B2B/BM, I have to admit that there might be a problem if I win via a pretty simple strategy (even worse: a single card) that usually has a much, much harder time against more resilient mana bases (for example, playing against two-colored Control as an Izzet mage feels like playing with half of your deck only). I guess the folks before me explained it way better, so I stop here.

Wasteland: I can't say yet if I want it to go or not. Fact is: Wasteland is an autoinclude in almost any deck. The random wins an early Wasteland onto some dual land provides is nothing this format needs, especially after we got rid of the hand-sculpting spoils mulligan. Even when it's not that game-changing, it's still nice to get rid of the annoying manland or slowing the opponent down while being in a favorable board position. It's basically never bad (except for maybe the first turns when you need coloured mana, but that's something different). On the other hand, this might become the most important to Academy decks and currently is one of the few ways to deal with other strong utility lands. I'm not sure about that one, but it's worth taking it into consideration.

Which cards should be deleted from the banned-list and why? (max. the 5 most important ones)

Vampiric Tutor: Yes, this is debatable and I know there are some good arguments against it, so don't get me wrong when I just name some positives right now. Its powerlevel is certainly higher than the other allowed CMC 1 Mirage tutors since it searches every type of card for the cost of 2 life, but I still think it's not that much over the top. As long as we have its bigger brother for 1B in the format (which I'm a big fan of), arguments saying the effect was "too broken" seem pretty weak. Also I predict that certain archetypes (namely Combo / certain control decks) can benefit a lot more from it than the predominant creature-based strategies (but it's still good there, no question), which brings archetypes closer up to par. Lastly, I think that Black as a colour is in desperate need of having another strong card.  


Helpful suggestions are welcome!

The Council shall continue to do a good job like this and please never ban Mana Drain l0l.

[won't]

In addition to what haju already said, I'd like to point out that the free mulligan doesn't seem to have the problem of heavily favouring certain strategies. While the spoils mulligan definitely helped proactive strategies out more than reactive ones, the free mulligan benefits both equally (from what I experienced so far).

The average game probably lasts longer, so there are many people that say slow reactive (control) strategies might excel and there is no doubt that the longer the game goes, the higher a lategame oriented deck's win chances will be. However, fast decks will still threaten lethal damage early enough since control is slowed as well. Most crucial thing for control is to hit land drops up to turn 5 at least, preferably up until turn 7. Missing a land / not having the right colour in the four first turns has cost me several of these games.

To become more precise: I was running 38 mana producing lands + 7 mana stones and still managed to get fucked over by screw quantity and quality wise. I'm pretty sure that my mana base is not optimized and that mindlessly adding 3 lands and a few mana stones won't solve this. I can easily see future control decks running 40+ land while still having 3-4 mana artifacts in the deck (compare this to Tabri's Oath control, winner of lastGP Hanau, that ran only 33 (!!!) freaking mana producing lands of which two were colorless also – fucking insane! This was only possible because of the spoils muligan).

So if your mana eats up 45% of your deck space in a controlish strategy, what are you going to cut in order to not lose to early aggression? You still need all that CC1-2 spot removal, but want Wrath effects / Humility to come down on turn 4 reliably. Cutting winconditions never is a good idea in an already low thread deck, but card draw, card quality spells (these ones are strengthened especially with the new rule), counterspells, solutions to non-creature permanents, tutors etc all want their place in my list.

tl;dr: Free mulligan doesn't suffer from the flaw of supporting certain strategies (tempo, low curve, 4-5 colour) more than others. Its first obvious drawback (increasing number of non-interactive games because of mana issues) can probably be adressed by optimizing mana bases. How? I don't know yet, but I like the challenge.

Hi all.

So, I've been following the daily Theros spoils and I actually do think that there are some cards that will probably see (maybe even a lot of) play in our beloved Highlander format although many people say that they are somewhat disappointed so far.

I'm namely talking about:


I. Steam Augury

A 'reversed Fact or Fiction' and my personal favourite so far. This is by no means at the same power level of the real FoF simply because you give away information while making piles, but I actually think it might become another staple of CA generating CMC 4 bombs in control decks. Obviously, the main counter-argument will be that you can't really use this card in a defensive way when things get really tight. E. g. you are facing lethal damage in the opponent's next turn and are desperately looking for a solution, but even if you do the 4-1 split, your opponent can still prevent you from getting what you need in a certain defensive situation (unless there are two cards in the five that save your ass).

But - and this is why I think the card is so interesting - when the board is even or maybe just slightly in your opponent's favour, this card can seal the game with massive card advantage. And this is what makes it look so good for decks with controlish elements, since in the the current meta single cards can turn around close games easily. Best way to prevent this is to have sufficient solution options, and these are usually achieved by outnumbering your opponents options (usually cards in hand, thus card advantage). I for myself am so going to test this.


B. Spellheart Chimera

X/3 trampling flyer for CMC 3 with built-in Runechanter's Pike. This one might see play in some kind of midrange Izzet deck. Personally, I like it very much, especially when you consider that it's only UC.


C. Fleecemane Lion

The better Watchwolf. The monstrostiy option gives aggroish decks a nice mana sink when the game goes longer than they want and is always a thread. Sure, a spot removal in responste to the activation will kill it, but if you look at it this way, it forces the enemy to leave mana open and be ready to react. Either way, it's a win:win-situation since no one really wants to see hexproof + indestructible on the same card under an opponent's control.


D. Xenagos, the Reveler

This guy is pretty underrated in my eyes. 2/2 haste for free every round is still nice in midrange-type decks, but the potential ramp will help pumping out higher cost creatures consistently up until the ultimate will pretty much end the game.


E. Hero's Downfall

Since black is arguably one of the weaker colours in our format, the BB cost might prevent it from seeing a lot of play. Decks like Oath and the rarely seen MBC will still make good use out of the card.


F. Swan Song

This will replace the Dispel in all the blue based 'let's ramp up and drop some bombs' artifact / combo control archetype decks and can even become a staple in the typical blue countersuit next to its CMC 1 brothers Pierce, Misstep and Snare. A 2/2 flyer is irrelevant when you exchange it for a resolved Sphinx's Revelation for 5+. At the same time, tempo decks might not want that card since a 2/2 in the air might trade with their Vendilion Clique etc.


G. Anger of the Gods

A Firespout-like effect that exiles everything that dies that turn. Sounds good, will push Izzet Control decks like some other of the spoiled cards.


So far, so good. All in all, I have probably missed some nice cards but this is what I instantly recalled after seeing it for the first time. What are your thoughts?

Personal preference is B (> C >>> A).

You can make three main 'arguments' for A:

- it does require some skill to make good use out of it (granted, this adds a new element to the game)
- more room for (pet) business cards (everyone loves to run more business, but this isn't really an argument in my eyes)
- gives players the chance to keep an otherwise unplayable hand thus ensuring interactivity (but that's what other mulligan rules can provide, too).

However, I see them getting outweighed by two really crucial disadvantages the spoils mulligan causes:

- enabling super greedy manabases, even in control decks (my main concern: in 4 colour decks an important fetchland in the opener is almost guaranteed while keeping the land count as low as possible; no reason to run less than three colours)
- curving out a perfect hand (which strenghtens proactive strategies more than reactive ones).

I'd like to test option B for maybe half a year just to try it out. If people don't like it, it can still be reverted via another poll or something.

Thanks for the report and congrats to the 2nd place.

From what I see when I compare your list to what we discussed via PM, you seem to be sold on Restoration Angel, too. Even if this thing doesn't blink anything, it's still an EoT threat and instant blocker. Have you thought about Notion Thief?

Then again, how does your ton of countermagic work without mana acceleration and that many tap-out spells? It doesn't seem like you're playing enough of a draw-go style, so didn't it bite you when you tapped out for a Walker / Finisher and the enemy used your defenseless position to drop another bomb?

Thx for the effort, I really appreciate getting the lists so early. Seems like the meta was pretty fast compared to the Hanau GP? How was the general consensus on the metagame?

[against]

You are right, I guess I was a bit harsh, but to me your reasoning seemed to only stress the less vital points of why oath is such a strong card. This led to me assuming you were defending a pet card of yours no matter what. I am sorry, if I got that wrong.

On the topic of slots and winconditions. Of course, once your Oath is handled, you have a tougher time winning with planeswalkers and such but after all, your deck is geared to buy time and protect your most vital cards. How likely is it for you to really lose it? What clock can your adversary put you under while being heavily disrupted? I have never played the Oath deck myself, so I may as well be wrong, but Krosan Grip aside, which card really handles oath definitely?

And the competetiveness surely is there, else this format would not appeal to me this much but contrary to a regular Tournament, where most people would play what they think is the best deck (or what they can afford) or the best deck suited to their playstyle, on the HL Cup and Tournaments the beloved pet Deck factor is much much higher.
Just look at all those foil, alternate art, signed and whatnot cards in most of the decks. A lot of the people there have put a considerate effort and a lot of money in hunting down unique/special versions. Do you think they change their decks at a whim?
Again, no one doubts the competitive nature of the format, but after all most players love their highlander as much as they would love their cat/dog and they even groom it to a certain extent. It is hard to just get another cat because the one you grew up with does not catch mice anymore. Maybe you get her eyes fixed, but you do not let her go easily.

I for one will probably always play esper highlanders. Of course I try to build a strong deck and I am sure I succeeded at that, but I know that a lot of archetypes out there are stronger. And I say this as a very competitive player with several PTQ T8s, three PTs and one top 16 PT finish under my belt. There is a soft spot in my heart for this 100 card pile. I can not just leave it at the side of the road like a dog before the holidays.

Have you played an Oath deck by yourself for a certain amount of time? I don't mean like 10 or 20 games, but maybe over a few weeks. No offense intended, I'm being completely serious about this. To me it seems that you had some really bad games playing against the Oath archetype. But only playing it yourself will show you how much the named drawbacks really weigh.

For quite some time, I hated all multicoloured aggro archetypes because losing on turn 4/5 feels somewhat 'unfun' to me. I became so narrow-minded playing against a friend of mine that I only noticed his good draws and neglected the times he didn't kill me so early with a bunch of undercosted 3/x beaters. He offered me to swap decks for several games and suddenly I realized that his Naya has some bad and mediocre draws as well.

It's the same with Oath: losing to a Turn 2 Oath definitely feels somewhat 'dumb'. But if you ever play the deck, you will notice that you just win or lose without an Oath equally often. In theory, this deck indeed is full of answers and can handle everything. But a purely reactive deck core is not a winning strategy. Answering your opponent's threats 5 turns in a row is not going to win you the game any time soon.

I see you completed your Oath list, thank you very much.

As the current Highlander Cup champion, what is your opinion on Oath of Druids as a potential format breaking card? Some find it to be simply overpowered, some think it's just fine. You've been playing the deck for quite a long time, and now you have won one of the (if not the biggest regular) tournament with it. What can you contribute to the controversial discussion?

In addition, I really like how an Izzet control deck made Top 8. There have been several people that claim non-basic hate strategies to be not strong enough because of Fetchlands that get all the basics. Now, the archetype has made Top 8 again which shows the opposite in my opinion.

[Round 1 vs. Matthias, Izzet Control, 1-1 Draw]

Thank you very much, I was about to start a thread on my own. Congratulations Tabris, I watched you play when I had time and have seen some really nice plays.


Since I have the feeling that this forum usually needs a little kick in the ass to get going, I decided to start a discussion with a tournament report of my own. So, I just came home from work friday night and only had my UB control ready to play. Since I didn't want to completely sleeve up a new deck, I just decided to throw in green for the Oath plan. I usually play Esper but find BUG Oath to be somewhat more flexible in an unkown metagame. Let the games begin.

Round 1 vs. Matthias, Izzet Control, 1-1 Draw

In G1 it's a typical attrition war. I let my discard and counters focus on all the non-basic hate he's running (Moon, B2B, PoP etc.) but never really resolve a threat in return since he knows what he is doing. When I then finally get to trigger an Oath after 30 minutes or so, he steals my Rune-scarred Demon with a Sower of Temptation. Wouldn't be too bad if there wasn't that bitch called Spellskite which ate all my spot removal until the Demon beats me to death. In G2 I hardcast one of my creatures, but he has some blockers and finally Maze of Ith. When I add Jace, the Mind Sculptor to the board and start fatesealing, he scoops. G3 couldn't be finished, so I start the day with a Draw.

Round 2 vs. Ronald, Uwbg Aggro Control, 0-2 Loss

I mulligan to six in G1 and see a Bribery with a T1 Inquisition. Unfortunately, I don't find a solution until he just goes for it in turn five. From there on, my own Demon beats me again and when I finally take care of it, I used too much to ever get back into the game. In G2 I'm somewhat low on lands, but he also played really well and kept me from getting back into the game in time. He grew his Knight of the Reliquary and just before I could hit the crucial Oath, I roll over to a searched Wasteland in my upkeep and Oath gets countered by Force Spike into Mana Tithe into Daze (only had 2 Mana open). Then the Knight kills me.

Round 3 vs. Olga, Orzhov Aggro Control, 2-0 Win

Olga is five minutes late into the round, getting a game loss and we start G2. That one was fast: I took her removal with Duress and Inquisition and then resolved Oath. I offered her to play another game for fun to see what would have happened and that turned out to be quite funny. I keep Oath in my starting hand, but it gets removed by a Tidehollow Sculler. She beats me dangerously low to exactly 1 live with a 2/2 Zombie, Isamaru and the Sculler. However, I find the Black Sun's Zenith, clean the board and counter the next two threats. Then I hardcast Pelakka Wurm. The gained life gives me some breating room to finally come back with Tamiyo ultimate into Oath trigger -> I have a hand of 50+ cards. No comeback for her.

Round 4 vs. Manuel, BUG Oath, 1-1 Draw

Mirror match, that's ugly. In G1 he kills a land of mine with Beast Within and drops Oath into Emrakul. Game Over. Pretty fast for a control mirror I'd say. At least my mulligan to 6 didn't really matter then. G2 I drop Oath and have Orchard ready. He uses a ton of resources to play around the tokens, we both get to Oath two times when he finds an Orchard of his own. But I have the Karn Liberated to remove his Emrakul and then beat him to -2 life. G3 can't be finished fast enough.

Round 5 vs. Andre, Esper Combo, 1-1 Draw

In G1 he finds the Leyline + Helm combo pretty fast while I can't do shit under his Back to Basics. In G2 I see a pretty weak hand with a T1 Duress. He focuses on successfully handling all my few win options, but finally I stick a Jace, the Mind Sculptor and win with his ultimate. G3 starts with the extra turns -> Draw again.

Round 6 vs Johannes, Naya Aggro, 2-1 Win

In G1 it's the die roll. I tutor Oath, he tutors Pridemage. I tutor Regrowth and drop Oath again. After the last attack before my upkeep Oath trigger, I'm at 3 life and he shows me the classy Lightning Bolt. Damn, that was close. I blindly Mental misstepped his T1 Birds of Paradise (played with a Savannah, so I guessed that he might be playing Bant) which I better saved for the killing Bolt. Well, at least I knew what I was up against. G2 I play Inquisition to steal his T1 play which gives me a lot of time. When I see him being stuck on two lands, I tutor for wasteland to screw him even more over. Soon after, Jace the Mind Sculptor hits the board. Fatesealing prevents him from finding sufficient Mana and there comes the 2nd ultimate kill of the day. G3 is pretty close again because he begins pretty explosively. Innocent Blood kills Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (who is a real bitch btw) and a devastating 3:1 trade with my Damnation lets me staiblize on 2 life. He has no cards, I only have a Force of Will without a blue card. So it takes a lot of time to play around a potential burn kill. I finally Get Oath + Orchard going, finding me Primeval Titan that generates so much Mana I almost could have hardcasted Emrakul.

Round 7 vs. Timo, Izzet Control, 2-0 Win

In G1, he is colour screwed in a two colour deck. Bitter irony. So he only has Islands and can't play the Blood Moon. Meanwhile, I handle his Vendilion Clique and get Liliana of the Veil + Life from the Loam going. He scoops when he thinks he is just too far behind with Liliana hitting a +7 counters, stealing half of his lands and continuing to rip his hand apart next turn. In G2, a Wasteland of him disrupts my plans and he establishes a very strong board position with tons of Mana via Grim Monolith and Izzet Signet + a ton of unattackable basics. However, he goes out of gas soon after, I bait his counter with an EoT Fact or Fiction and then resolve Pernicious Deed on my own turn. Blowing it up for X = 2, I kill Snapcaster Mage, Monolith, Phyrexian Furnace and Signet for a really good 3:1 trade (he had mana to activate the Furnace before Deed blew up everything). Getting rid of his graveyard hate, that leaves him vulnerable and an Intuition for Life from the Loam + cycle lands. This draws me tons of cards while I keep countering his few key spells. Finally, I stick a Vraska, the Unseen that kills his Jace, the Mind Sculptor and ticks up to 7, then drops to 4 again due to a bolt. Few minutes later, Vraska finally ultimates and Timo became the first victim of my assassin tokens ever.

Total result: 3-1-3


Overall, the deck feels very viable, but not too strong as some of the people I talked to criticized. There are quite some drawbacks when going for the Oath plan (missing all the super good utility creatures, very few real win conditions, being reliant on Oath, still losing after a triggered Oath because you are already low on life etc.). And I still can't decide if I want B or W as the third colour after UG. Regarding my playstyle, I really need to focus harder on winning G1 to avoid so many draws. No matchup really felt unwinnable, it's just that this deck can take ages to kill (apart from the random instant Oath win). Especially control matchups are so damn annoying as they consume a lot of concentration, too. If I played better, I guess that at least one of the draws could have been a win, maybe even two.  

I had a diverse mix of opponents. Some tried super hard and didn't really seem to be too relaxed, with others I could joke around and talk trash while having a good time. Nevertheless, all of them were nice and well-mannered. Combined with a solid location, getting up early and travelling to this event was totally worth it.



So long,

Doks

Hi all.


Here are the current changes to the Highlander banlist.

My thoughts on certain decisions.


I. Stoneforge Mystic banned

Well, this one was a controversial discussion over months now. In the end, I pretty much agree with the ban. I for myself don't really play creature based decks. But even as a dedicated control player, Stoneforge Mystic was a staple in my builds just for the random Turn 2 win against aggressive decks that didn't manage to handle it in time. I had this one experience at the HL GP in Iserlohn two or three years ago, where I won a counterwar about an enemy Stoneforge Mystic and then slammed down my own for the win. This one silly card forces you to spend so many resources on handling it that I'm sure its banning will reduce the amount of random wins provided by sheer power.

II. Demonic Tutor still watchlisted

In my experience, this card is still used for defensive purposes in most cases, especially in the early game. I understand that having a tutor effect for any card in your deck is somewhat odd when you look at the nature of a singleton format. On the other hand, what else does black have to offer? Almost nobody runs Black as a main colour, and that for a good reason: it's not known for a wide variety of good cards. It's almost always just used as a support colour and I predict that it wouldn't even be splashed to support if there wasn't Demonic Tutor. Vindicate, CC1 discards, Pernicious Deed, Lingering Souls, Mystical Teachings etc. are all nice and sweet, but if it wasn't for Demonic Tutor, people would think twice before splashing black. It's more like the tutor more or less brings other splash goodies to the party that otherwise wouldn't be considered.

III. Mystical Tutor unban watchlisted

Yes, unbanning that card could be really dangerous, EoT going for Entreat the Angels is pretty ridicoulus. However, as long as there is its green pendant in the format, this one should be free to play, too. "Either both or none" is my philosophy.


What do you think?


Best regards,

Doks

Very good, thanks a lot!

Overall, I agree. Unlike RtR, Gatecrash didn't give me that 'wtf so good!?' effect. No Deathrite/Decay/Detention Sphere/Dreadbore/Jace powerlevel cards. There are a few pretty good ones, but nothing that made my jaw immediately drop to the ground.

Boros Charm and Aurelia's Fury will see play imo. The first one in aggro decks, the latter probably in both aggroish midrange and control variant decks. I also find the Dimir and Orzhov Charms interesting, but not much more (yet; guess I will still have to test them). In the right deck they might fit just in. In addition, there is probably a way to abuse that High Priest of Penance.

GTC looks very flavourful, but it just hasn't the number of obviously super strong cards like RtR (which doesn't have to be a bad thing, but I find it unlike that there are more than a very few surprises that time will show).

I didn't want to offend you, I just think you didn't notice that GWB deck since you were sitting in the back rows during price picking.

And yes, I meant that list from the 1st place match. I think it's somewhat 'new' (and better) to an extent as it is a little less mana hungry, faster and more flexible but misses the real big big bombs for lategame. Thanks for clarifying. 

I think you didn't really notice that those are the places 2-4. 

Place one (picking prices before UW Control) was some GWB rock midrange stuff deck. I could try to get my hands on that list.


Personally, I failed hard. I notice that I play way too few games and lack practice regularly and make bad decisions. In addition, I can't really manage to adept my pet deck (Esper Control) to the metagame. For yesterday, I didn't pack enough spot removal / defensive early drops for all the pressuring turn 1 and 2 plays by my opponents (Junk, BUGw 1st place list from Hanau with minor changes, BYE, WW and Naya) and lost many games before Sweeper and a big drop could stabilize. Nevertheless, I had a lot of fun and it was worth it to just take the time although I didn't really have it.

Thanks for the work! Admitted it's a pretty mixed T8, yet a little creature heavy though. But the deck diversity is great.


I like to see all the nonbasic land hate there since it shows that B2B / Moon / Ruination + PoP etc. are still quite effective which provides some food for thoughts for the fetchland ban discussion (some people are of the opinion that fetchlands render nonbasic hate somewhat 'useless').