I don't have time to write long stories. I'll just say that this is a really dedicated combo deck where every card is supposed to be a part of the engine. So no removal, "win conditions", cheap cantrips etc.
// Lands (30)
6 Forest
6 Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
6 Snow-Covered Island
5 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
// Mana-ax. (16)
1 Wild Growth
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Search for Tomorrow
1 Rampant Growth
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Into the North
1 Edge of Autumn
1 Farseek
1 Nature's Lore
1 Three Visits
1 Wall of Roots
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Harrow
1 Sunscape Familiar
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Helm of Awakening
// Heartbeat (3)
1 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Mana Reflection
// Untap (7)
1 Early Harvest
1 Turnabout
1 Rude Awakening
1 Time Warp
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Palinchron
// Regrowth (5)
1 Regrowth
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Recollect
1 Relearn
1 Eternal Witness
// Business (27)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Impulse
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Sylvan Library
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Frantic Search
1 Meditate
1 Compulsive Research
1 Intuition
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Deep Analysis
1 Harmonize
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Concentrate
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Foresee
1 Careful Consideration
1 Future Sight
1 Mind's Desire
1 Time Spiral
1 Braingeyser
1 Mind Spring
1 Stroke of Genius
// Stayin' Alive (13)
1 Pact of Negation
1 Delay
1 Mana Drain
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Negate
1 Remand
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Lull
1 Moment's Peace
1 Constant Mists
1 Tangle
1 Oblivion Ring
Comments welcome.
How quickly do you usually win?
i wont comment on the deck, since i´m not very familiar with heartbeat combo (never played it, nor against it)
I haven't kept the record, but it's usually somewhere between 6th and 8th turn when I go off. 5th turn wins happen. Actual winning often happens many turns later because of savage Time Walking, but opponent won't get more than six or seven turns. What matters is that I am always a turn faster than RG(x) beatz which matters - unless they get Winter Orb which straight out wins. ;)
This deck, among many others, should raise the question about Gifts' banning. Resolved Gifts always wins the game on spot.
Quote from: Nastaboi on 06-10-2008, 10:25:20 PM
I haven't kept the record, but it's usually somewhere between 6th and 8th turn when I go off. 5th turn wins happen. Actual winning often happens many turns later because of savage Time Walking, but opponent won't get more than six or seven turns. What matters is that I am always a turn faster than RG(x) beatz which matters - unless they get Winter Orb which straight out wins. ;)
hmm.. quite good then. And how about decks a little more controllish? With counters?
QuoteThis deck, among many others, should raise the question about Gifts' banning. Resolved Gifts always wins the game on spot.
Gifts is probably the best tutor in the format, right now. Specially for LFTL users. you cant go wrong with LFTL in grave + nice lands. ;) That is why it´s on the watch list.
imo turn 6-8 is too late for a combo deck to kill! especially with only 5 counters and no removal. it may work against creature-based decks but u shouldnt be able to win any control mus?! well i got neither experience with heartbeat combo but i tried faster combo decks with more disruption and they still sucked :[
Against control you just outdraw them. They have no clock, so you don't have to be fast. You have mana superiority, and with enough lands on the table you'll eventually resolve one draw spell and then they can't stop the tide. Multicolored control decks seldom pack ten or more counters. U(x) Skies is the hard one, because they have counters AND clock, and usually Winter Orb which just wins.
New list! Changes:
- Overgrowth
- Far Wanderings
- Recall
+ Delay
+ Negate
+ Lull
i just again took a look at ur list respecting the GP in about 2 weeks @ aachen and dont think u can beat any good RG list! even w/o 2 bloodmoon effects and winter orb u just die turn 4-6. against defenseless combobuilds aggro takes u out at the latest at turn 5. u have to be faster i guess..
dunno what ur meta looks like but combo which needs more than 5 turns to win is simply not good enough imo! i would lose evry game : )
You have obviously never seen the deck in play, or played Heartbeat in standard nor Aluren in old old Extended. I certainly wouldn't call a deck with 2 walls, 4 fogs (3 of which reusable, plus Turnaubout) and 6 cheap counters "defenseless". Usually I just counter a second or third turn threat while ramping mana and time walk with a fog by turn 5 or 6 if needed (remember to Intuition for three fogs).
With this deck you have to know what you are doing. Hundreds of goldfishes do help, but if you've played combo decks before it shoudn't be too hard to find out right plays. I have only lost to aggro decks when they have had Winter Orb or due to terrible landscrew/flood. Of course sometimes aggro can just goldfish faster, but no one is perfect.
My deck is by the way 100 % Moon/B2B proof. There are no non-basics.
I'd like to include Arcane Denial in somewhere, this is one of the few decks that wouldn't mind an opponent drawing two. Not to mention countering your own spells.
[EDIT:] Arcane.
Quote from: Nastaboi on 28-11-2008, 02:23:17 PM
I'd like to include Arcane Delay in somewhere, this is one of the few decks that wouldn't mind an opponent drawing two. Not to mention countering your own spells.
Probably meant arcane denial no? I´ve used to run it but the +2 draw hurtsmy deck, your probably not that bad since you can probably win before losing to card advantage,
Hi,
I let myself inspired with this deck. I love this idea and game events that ocur. I would like to share what I found and ask you for little help.
The main win condition remained the same - Heartbeat + Palinchron + Stroke letting oponent to outdraw oponent. I have thinned the win condition (Mana Reflection, Rude Awakening) and added tutors (Academy Rector, Wargate). There are more lands to ensure at least 4 lands on turn 4. I removed some dead cards, that are good just when you are comboing (Sapphire Medallion, Rude Awakening, Relearn, Meditation) or some that lead to card disadvantage and aren't good enought (Xantid Swarm, Lull, Constant Mist). The major changes were made on the field of defensive cards - original build could solve serious threads (that were not countered) just bouncing them back to hand or by using of Oblivion Ring. Doing so required to win on the same or next turn, which needn't to be so easy to do. New version contains more pernament distuption (Krosan Grip, StP and I test one new removal Resounding Silence(just because of cycling ability)). To stop agro i loaded 2 more walls, that draw a card on CIP. With enourmous card advantage, which this deck provides it is much easier to find solution for unpleasant situation.
I tried to improve matchup against agro, which wasn't quite impressive and i got offten stuck and was not able to combo out. Single enchantment disruption could ruin the day.
In our meta agro rules, but time to time one meet control. I made score 13:0:3 during our HL season. I must admit that we play games for 25 lifes total, that helps a little, but additional lifes were seldom needed. But yes, it makes things a little bit easier :-)
Why to play this deck? It is fun to play this deck and sometimes one have to solve realy difficult decisions. This deck has unique win condition and is solid enough to be competitive. And name some other HL deck, that use infinite mana to win :-)
May be it is not the best deck in HL and there is ton's of answers to stop this combo, but there is no broken strategy and every deck can be defeated.
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
11 [UNH] Forest
11 [UNH] Island
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Forest
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [R] Tropical Island
1 [A] Savannah
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
// Tutors
1 [RAV] Drift of Phantasms
1 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
1 [8E] Merchant Scroll
1 [MOR] Idyllic Tutor
1 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
1 [UD] Academy Rector
1 [ARB] Wargate
//Regrowth
1 [10E] Recollect
1 [JGC] Regrowth
1 [TO] Nostalgic Dreams
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
//Untap
1 [MI] Early Harvest
1 [US] Turnabout
1 [P3] Capture of Jingzhou
1 [P2] Temporal Manipulation
1 [TE] Time Warp
1 [US] Time Spiral
1 [UL] Palinchron
//Speedup
1 [TSP] Search for Tomorrow
1 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
1 [6E] Wild Growth
1 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 [FUT] Edge of Autumn
1 [P3] Three Visits
1 [5E] Nature's Lore
1 [RAV] Farseek
1 [CS] Into the North
1 [8E] Rampant Growth
1 [MI] Wall of Roots
1 [PS] Sunscape Familiar
1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
1 [IN] Harrow
//Defense
1 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
1 [RAV] Carven Caryatid
1 [AP] Jungle Barrier
1 [IN] Tangle
1 [OD] Moment's Peace
1 [ALA] Resounding Silence
1 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [GP] Repeal
1 [IN] Repulse
1 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
1 [MOR] Negate
1 [7E] Memory Lapse
1 [ARE] Mana Leak
1 [RAV] Remand
1 [FD] Condescend
1 [ON] Complicate
1 [4E] Counterspell / Mana Drain
//Hearhtbeat
1 [CHK] Heartbeat of Spring
1 [JU] Mirari's Wake
// Card advantage
1 [RAV] Compulsive Research
1 [LRW] Mulldrifter
1 [UL] Frantic Search
1 [TSP] Careful Consideration
1 [FUT] Foresee
1 [OD] Concentrate
1 [FNM] Fact or Fiction
1 [REW] Harmonize
1 [10E] Tidings
1 [ON] Future Sight
1 [SC] Mind's Desire
1 [MOR] Mind Spring
1 [US] Stroke of Genius
1 Braingeyser
//Bussines
1 [FNM] Impulse
1 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [LRW] Ponder
1 [SHM] Manamorphose
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
Some cards I was thinking of - Evacuation, Wall of Shards, Time Stop, Trade Secrets, Solitary Confidement, Cryptid Annelid.
Comments are welcomed.
<I am sorry for my english>
Hi, I am trying to build this deck for my local highlandergroup but I am a littlebit confused because the only winoptions are Stroke of Genius and Rude Awakeing, right? I tried this deck on mws and its realy funny to play but still I´am still not sure if a red-splash would be better bc of:
A) Manaflare (doing the same thing like Heartbeat)
B) More Winconditions (Banefire, Demonfire)
----------------
Now playing: Dinosaur Jr. - In a jar (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/dinosaur+jr./track/in+a+jar)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)
Yea, now with Enlightened Tutor banner UGr is definately the way. I have not really touched the deck since that announcement, but I am fooling around with mono blue High Tide deck with a light splash.
Quote from: Nastaboi on 19-09-2009, 09:42:53 PM
... but I am fooling around with mono blue High Tide deck with a light splash.
sounds interessting, maybe more specific? ;)
Well with a red splash, the deck could use some improvements overthere, bc its missing removal and stuff ;(
----------------
Now playing: Dinosaur Jr. - Lose (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/dinosaur+jr./track/lose)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)
Why is version with red better than version with white? You still have Idylic tutor, Sterling Grove and Mirari's Wake (ok, mana flare is much better). And you have access to sweepers such as Wog. You don't need Banefire, you have Braingeyser and Stroke of Genius.
well then, 2 Tutors + Wrath + StE, PtE vs. 1 (Heartbeat-enchantment)+ 2 Winconditions (Banefire, Demonfire)
----------------
Now playing: Sonic Youth - Star Power (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/sonic+youth/track/star+power)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)
So, I have build this deck and just abdicate on any removal, like PtE, StP, Krosan Grip or any other stuff. Exception is the Oblivion ring (maybe I will cut this too). I wonder if this is good enough, bc I added some spells which are helping me to find the comboparts faster, (Telling Time, Peer Through Depths etc.) I am just counting on my counter and thats it. I use the list from "Ball.Lightning" bc its more solid in my eyes, but I´ve made some other choices:
+Peer Through Depths (look deeper in the library)
+Wall of Shards (very good vs fast aggro)
+Woodland Guidance (just testing, but seems good)
+Arcane Denial (well my opponent can have the draw, i need it to and want protect my combo)
+Rude Awakeing (obvious good spell and btw. 3rd winoption with all the ramp (besides Braingeyser, Stroke)
+Relearn (get the card draw or discarded spells back)
I am not sure about Mind´s Desire, it is a good spell but it cant kill the opponent, its just a huge "card draw" spell which comes most of the times for 6-9 (and i used key spells like Turnabout or Early Harvest for the turn, so it can be good enough if i didnt kill my opponent with this, right?) but then my opponent is still alive and I´ve got tons of cards in my hand or lands in play, is that purpose of this spell in this deck? I am still new to this kind of decktype so, just wondering.
Last thing I consider is Temporal Fissure/Ignite Memories(should be no problem to get one red mana from manamorphose or maybe one dual land etc. , if I am not able to kill my opponent with card draw, just bounce all his permanents/deal dmg. Just and idea.
Suggestions please!
version with red is much better :)
i played local tournament today and had 4:0:1 (time limit :/). But it was heavy tinkered meta (yea, we played without banlist or other restrictions). But in my meta, there wasnt another combo or stax so i dont know how good is this deck against stax.
// Lands
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
13 [UNH] Forest
15 [UNH] Island
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Mountain
1 [R] Taiga
1 [R] Tropical Island
1 [R] Volcanic Island
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
// Creatures
1 [RAV] Drift of Phantasms
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [AP] Jungle Barrier
1 [FNM] Krosan Tusker
1 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
1 [UL] Palinchron
1 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 [FNM] Wall of Blossoms
// Spells
1 [CNF] Banefire
1 [8E] Blood Moon - it won me 4 games against 5cc :)
1 [A] Braingeyser
1 [IA] Brainstorm
1 [TSP] Careful Consideration
1 [ON] Complicate
1 [RAV] Compulsive Research
1 [OD] Concentrate
1 [FD] Condescend
1 [SH] Constant Mists
1 [ST] Counterspell
1 [TO] Deep Analysis
1 [JVC] Demonfire - killed opp with demonfire for 20 twice :)
1 [6E] Early Harvest
1 [FUT] Edge of Autumn
1 [FNM] Fact or Fiction
1 [RAV] Farseek
1 [FUT] Foresee
1 [UL] Frantic Search
1 [ON] Future Sight
1 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
1 [PLC] Harmonize
1 [TE] Harrow
1 [CHK] Heartbeat of Spring
1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
1 [VI] Impulse
1 [CS] Into the North
1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
1 [5E] Mana Flare
1 [REW] Mana Leak
1 [SHM] Manamorphose
1 [8E] Merchant Scroll
1 [MOR] Mind Spring
1 [SC] Mind's Desire
1 [OD] Moment's Peace
1 [IA] Nature's Lore
1 [MOR] Negate
1 [TO] Nostalgic Dreams
1 [LRW] Ponder
1 [8E] Rampant Growth
1 [10E] Recollect
1 [R] Regrowth
1 [RAV] Remand
1 [GP] Repeal
1 [JVC] Repulse
1 [FD] Rude Awakening
1 [TSP] Search for Tomorrow
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [US] Stroke of Genius
1 [IN] Tangle
1 [9E] Tidings
1 [US] Time Spiral
1 [TE] Time Warp
1 [US] Turnabout
1 [DIS] Voidslime
1 [TSP] Walk the Aeons
1 [10E] Telling Time
I would like to play time warps from portal, but its difficult to get these cards >:(
to Tabris:
Mind's Desire is awesome, if you have just Heartbeat and Palinchron you just play whole deck :) (of course if you don't have any other draw or tutor or something)
You don't need another win conditions (Ignite Memories and Temporal Fissure). You have braingeyser, stroke and rude awakening and if you add red, you have banefire and demonfire (i used it often instead of removal :) banefire regrowth banefire and annoying finks was gone)
Quote from: lio123 on 10-10-2009, 05:25:57 PM
(yea, we played without banlist or other restrictions).
Bit hard to compare then, specially when you have acess to things like yawgmoth will, more/better tutors, tinker, strip mine, balance etc, etc not to mention P9...
Hm I see, well i tried some matches vs some casual highlander (most of them are controlish but also vs some aggro builds (boros, elves) ) and it was pretty solid.
But I see how good banefire, demonfire and an additional heartbeat (mana flare) is. BloodMoon and Ruination are good cards vs control decks. The thing about ignite memories is: they cant counter it (bc of storm) and cant redirect it (stroke or braingyser could be misdirected). I will see how it works, but i am going to add red.
Whats about Invoke the Firemind ? i wonder if its necessary to add more winconditions.
I have made some changes recently in the deck.
+Panoptic Mirror - accually this is almost one card combo. When playing 4 timewalk efects (Infinite turns) and bunch of draw spells(even imprinted Bribery or StP is great).
+Exhaustion - 4th pseudo-timewalk. When oponent is tapped out and after atack, this is realy nice 3 mana timewalk. Good in mana intensive moments (after tutoring and playing Heartbeat in one turn)
+Primal Growth - avaibility of sacrificing Rector, usually it eats useless wall, when comboing. 2 untapped lands are always nice.
+Bribery - it usually brings something like - Ethernall witness, Flametongue Kavu,
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, Exalted angel or another nice CIP creature
-Wild growth & Utopia Sprawl - sort of car disadvantege. Not great cards against control - they got so often bounced with Cryptic Command, Venser or Primal Command, destoryed with Pernicious Deed, Nevineral Disk, they got another problem with Trygon predator. Even random LD ruins them.
-Manamorphose : decklist has now 104 cards and I usually found it as dead card. Propably i will add one of the new fetchlands instead of them
-Resounding silence : too costy, even if cycling ability is tempting. Replaced with Bribery
-Enlightened Tutor :-( Something everybody has to cut
Curently testing Rite Of Replication. Like the idea of playing it for 9 mana ;-)
lio123:
Realy nice work with red version. I like the idea of playing Magus of the Moon and Blood Moon. But it seems to me, that it will be more difficult put combo together. Your deck is missing 3 tutors (nearly the half). RWUG version would have shaky manabase and one would be punished for playing too many duals. Btw. there is realy one card I would definitely cut - Krosan tusker ;-), Telling time is also quite weak. Wall of roots is essential.
tabris:
Invoke the Firemind looks interesting, but I am not sure. As a draw spell it is poor (unless you are comboing), as a removal it is very poor and as a win condition (there is accually no need for another win condition ;-) But try to test it.
***Comments to your card choices
+Peer Through Depths - always finds target, but never tested it
+Wall of Shards - it not that good as you say. On turn 2 you want to have UG mana and not to bother with white, when next white spell to play is 2-3 turns away. There is another problem with this wall - it makes no card advantage (it does not draw card on CIP) so it is dead draw when comboing. Sometimes it makes diference.
+Woodland Guidance - depends on how many forests you have in play. In general it seems too mana expensive to me. My first target with manabase is to be able to get UUUGGW from my lands as soon as posible - to get access to all spells in deck.
+Arcane Denial - better counters for combo protections. Depends again on how many of them do you want to have in deck. I would prefere counters that has cycling (Complicate, Miscalculaton) over this one - can be traded for another cards when comboing.
+Rude Awakeing - i discarded this spell as not as good untap (can't be tutored with Merchant Scroll or Drift and does not do anything until at least 7 lands in play) (I did not realized, that it is sort of wincondition). I give it a shot propably instead of Rites of Replication ;-)
+Relearn - try to avoid to have too much regrowts efect in deck, there is some amount, that is optimal.
Could anyone post an updated UGw / r List?
Iam not really sure what to play, White gives Tutors (after ET got banned not the bests left) and Mirari where Mana Reflection should be better?
Red gives you Mana Flare, 2 Wincons, nonbasic Hate 2xMoon.
The red Version seems to be better.
And why is nobody playing Back to Basics in a basic land Deck?
I´ll post my updated list later just a few infos:
I prefer the red version bc:
-Demonfire/Banefire (allows to kill without combo pieces just enough mana and regrowth)
-Manaflare (better then Miraris Wake imo)
-Ruination (Blood Moon or something else is also ok)
-Invoke the Firemind (flexible card draw or kill, whatever is needed)
I play also B2B
Ive cutted everything else, which isnt needed for combo or necessary for defense
Here is my list reworked. I wonder if Panoptic Mirror is that awesome, I ve had him in my deck but never came to use him. Played a lot of matches but never see if it work. Also in real life ive got only 2 Timewalk spells so maybe its only usefull if you have the P3 one.
I just throw out: ponder, impulse, brainstorm, peer through dephts
so the lack of tutoring and library manipulation is the weakpoint. Maybe I run to many counter (9) I could cut 2 (condescend, arcane)
So what is your opinion on adding Garruk and Jace, the Mindsculptor? (cant defend them well, only 4 walls and 3 Fogs) And what to cut ?
// Lands
13 [UNH] Island
11 [UNH] Forest
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [UNH] Mountain
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Forest
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Mountain
// Creatures
1 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 [MI] Wall of Roots
1 [FNM] Wall of Blossoms
1 [DIS] Coiling Oracle
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [RAV] Carven Caryatid
1 [RAV] Drift of Phantasms
1 [SHM] Swans of Bryn Argoll
1 [AP] Jungle Barrier
1 [UL] Palinchron
// Spells
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
1 [IA] Wild Growth
1 [FE] High Tide (3)
1 [DIS] Demonfire
1 [CFX] Banefire
1 [TSP] Conflagrate
1 [8E] Rampant Growth
1 [IA] Nature's Lore
1 [OD] Moment's Peace
1 [CS] Into the North
1 [RAV] Farseek
1 [FUT] Edge of Autumn
1 [R] Regrowth
1 [IN] Tangle
1 [ON] Chain of Plasma
1 [UL] Miscalculation
1 [REW] Mana Leak
1 [8E] Merchant Scroll
1 [RAV] Remand
1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
1 [TO] Nostalgic Dreams
1 [SOK] Ideas Unbound
1 [ST] Counterspell
1 [RAV] Muddle the Mixture
1 [LG] Mana Drain
1 [MOR] Mind Spring
1 [A] Braingeyser
1 [MI] Early Harvest
1 [TSP] Search for Tomorrow
1 [CHK] Heartbeat of Spring
1 [10E] Recollect
1 [CHK] Kodama's Reach
1 [TE] Harrow
1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
1 [5E] Mana Flare
1 [A] Timetwister
1 [US] Back to Basics
1 [UL] Frantic Search
1 [US] Exhaustion
1 [RAV] Compulsive Research
1 [ON] Complicate
1 [US] Stroke of Genius
1 [PLC] Harmonize
1 [TSP] Careful Consideration
1 [OD] Concentrate
1 [US] Turnabout
1 [FNM] Fact or Fiction
1 [FUT] Foresee
1 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
1 [TO] Deep Analysis
1 [AL] Force of Will
1 [10E] Tidings
1 [P2] Temporal Manipulation
1 [TE] Time Warp
1 [P3] Capture of Jingzhou
1 [FD] Rude Awakening
1 [SC] Mind's Desire
1 [US] Time Spiral
I also post my list to share wisdom :-)
Decklist first - comments will follows
// Lands
10 [UNH] Forest
10 [UNH] Island
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Forest
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [R] Tropical Island
1 [A] Savannah
1 [A] Tundra
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
// Tutors
1 [RAV] Drift of Phantasms
1 [MOR] Idyllic Tutor
1 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
1 [8E] Merchant Scroll
1 [ARB] Wargate
1 [MR] Tooth and Nail
// Acceleration
1 [TSP] Search for Tomorrow
1 [P3] Three Visits
1 [5E] Nature's Lore
1 [RAV] Farseek
1 [CS] Into the North
1 [8E] Rampant Growth
1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
1 [WWK] Explore
1 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 [MI] Wall of Roots
1 [PS] Sunscape Familiar
1 [IN] Harrow
// Regrowth
1 [10E] Recollect
1 [JGC] Regrowth
1 [TO] Nostalgic Dreams
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
// Untap
1 [MI] Early Harvest
1 [US] Turnabout
1 [P3] Capture of Jingzhou
1 [P2] Temporal Manipulation
1 [TE] Time Warp
1 [US] Time Spiral
1 [US] Exhaustion
1 [FD] Rude Awakening
// Stay alive
1 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
1 [RAV] Carven Caryatid
1 [AP] Jungle Barrier
1 [IN] Tangle
1 [OD] Moment's Peace
1 [IN] Repulse
1 [JU] Solitary Confinement
// Disrupt
1 [GP] Repeal
1 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
// Counters
1 [MOR] Negate
1 [7E] Memory Lapse
1 [ARE] Mana Leak
1 [RAV] Remand
1 [4E] Counterspell
1 [LG] Mana Drain
1 [AL] Force of Will
1 [FD] Condescend
// Combo
1 [CHK] Heartbeat of Spring
1 [JU] Mirari's Wake
1 [UL] Palinchron
1 [ON] Future Sight
1 [FUT] Magus of the Future
// Draw
1 [RAV] Compulsive Research
1 [TSP] Careful Consideration
1 [FUT] Foresee
1 [OD] Concentrate
1 [FNM] Fact or Fiction
1 [REW] Harmonize
1 [10E] Tidings
1 [SC] Mind's Desire
1 [MOR] Mind Spring
1 [US] Stroke of Genius
1 Braingeyser
// Bussiness
1 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [LRW] Ponder
1 [FNM] Impulse
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
This deck wants to have Future Sight in play (that is why i play Magus too). Even without endless mana it can go throught entire deck and seek combo. With reasonable amount of countering, opponent is unable to stop it.
There are some new cards that i would like to highlight
* Tooth and Nail - mostly tutor for palinchron and magus, which is means almost comboing out at the same moment even without hearthbeat. Best tutor in deck.
* Force of Will - accually best counter. So sad i realized it so late.
* Solitary Confinement - with future sight in play or hand full of card draw it keeps creatures at bay. One can play it as well as one turn fog and sacrifice it at the next upkeep.
* Explore - so far hard to say if it is worth playing. I think it fits in deck nicely.
33 lands now! I added one, becasuse i run new fetch lands, and i want to prevent myself from mana screw. In our region we dont have the possibility of the new mulligen rule...
I removed some cards from deck
* Panoptic mirror - not that breath taking as I earlier thought. The main problem is, that it is good when comboing and drawing it is dead card
* Bribery - win more card, this deck accually doesn't need it.
* Primal Growth - accually I drew it with Academy Rector only once... so I cut this one
* Academy rector - good against agro, but against control? It just sucks...
* Frantic search - this was the hardest card to cut. Mostly i found it just as card disadvantage. Very poor against control. Even thought I must admit, that having hearth beat out and playing this is always nice.
* Mulldrifter - not bad card, but it was replaced for Explore, which I think helps more.
The weakest cards in deck I found Ponder and Mind Desire.
2Tabris: I would definitely test your build. Some ideas are very interesting. The main weakpoint i found your manabase. Is there reason why not to play duals with green at least? this combines just fine with Nature Lore and Three wists and you could afford to play more fetchlands to make your manabase more stable. The worst thing, that can happen is color screw..
I think it is not from financial reason, because you run time twister :-D
I play the same build online. Money is not the issue.
Ive played a lot of games and was just one time colour screw, but with 5 Islands and only green cards in my hand, so fetchis or duals would not be helped.
The problem with dual- and shock lands are mainly one card: Early harvest and maybe B2B (which get me the wins vs heavy control decks). If I use my tutors I would always choose to get the dual/shocks, which means they are in the play. And as you know every mana is important to get in the combo. Besides that, i dont want to be vulnerable to wasteland and stuff. I cant afford to get wasted in round 1 or 2 (which could happen if i drop an early dual/shock). (I run only 3 fetchis but only the ones which get me at least 2 landtypes in my deck (UR, UG, RG) bc i run only 31 lands, i dont want to minimize the chance to draw a land.
I´ll agree with you on bribery and panoptic but not on Minds Desire. Often its just the win. Im combination with a timespiral (which is maybe the best card in the deck) its just ridiculous. Most of the time i get it for 9 or even more. Sometimes the deck looks like a TPS-build :D
On FoW...I dont know why i didnt have it either in the list for so long :0 its so importatn vs winterorb, geddon, ravages etc.
On Future Sight...yeah i see your point and i aggree with you, its just awezome with this card in play in the long matches, I am not sure about...maybe i will add it. Dont know what to cut though ;(
Btw. i killed my opponent two times with rude awakeing, last week so I suggest you test it a while. I dont see how tooth and nail could be any good bc for 9 mana i want to combo off for sure ;D
About ponder, i dont have any space for it but want to run it for the shuffle effect.
But I have to admit, after the last tournament, I need some sweeper cards, sometimes aggro is just to fast (Boros, WW)
what is your opinion on firespout and starstorm?
I would like to discuss the manabase slightly more. I must disagree, that duals just spoils Early harvest and that is why they are useless. There is plenty of cards, that have UU (counterspells, card draw, timewalks, Future Sight and magus) it is realy hard to get UU early to handle early threads. I agree with you, that shock lands are needless, but at least tropical island and in your case taiga would be great improvement to deck. You would have much easier access to mana u need when you need. For example to get rid of some anoying creature with your red removal spell. Early harvest is one spell in your deck, where basic/nonbasic matter. You write, that you are affraid of wasteland, but with just one mountain in deck you are not affraid of some random LD?
I play 4 duals and i am pretty sattisfied with it. Color is the problem only seldom (even now, color screw can ocur). When the main target is to play with future sight, one must have UUU and putting it together with random basic lands is diffucult. I now consider playing Cryptic command and that is another UUU spell to feed.
On Desire:
You are right that huge Mind Desire just wins the games. But i am pretty scared of Desire sitting in my hand during first turns, when agro is gathering forces(we dont have the option of declining of cards from the opening hand).
On Rude Avakening
I managed to kill opponent just once. I see the potential of this card as untaping lands during the turn, hearth beat hits the play and as a some sort of "ritual" when flipped with future sight.
On Tooth and Nails
May be it is not obvious at the first glance, but the potencial of this spell in this deck is awesome. Of course it costs 9 lands to do something. But dont we play timewalks and ramp mana through the game? Even hardcast it is for normal mana is not the problem. When hearth beat is out it cost just mana from 5 lands.
Tooth finds Palinchron and as palinchron hits the game - it just untap 7 lands.. so you can continue casting spells. With beat out, you have infinite mana, just at this moment. More importantly TAN is something like another Palinchron in library(you said that you have problems with tutoring...). Second target is Magus of the future which is also very good or Eternall witness returning some important spell, you need (may bee TAN again :-)).
Ponder
Even with fetches the efect of this card is almost irrevelant. Immo better is Serum Visdom as better card selector.
As for sweepers, i would run Flametongue Kavu :-) but it is just bad against control. So i would not reccomend. When you still look for some, I would pick spout then. Starstorm has RR in cost, which is realy hard to get with just one mountain :-D
Well,
I play just Mana Drain and Counterpell which need UU rest of the counter need just one U. Future Sight/Magus arent in my list and the time warp spells just make sense if I allready have enough lands.
So maybe my deck isnt so hungry for dual UU or GG, which means I can play without the shocks/duals. I cant remember any matches where I was stuck on the wrong colour except for one match. Maybe if I played more matches I will reconcider my thoughts.
I run 2 Mountains + 1 snow covered one and most of the time they dont hit my basic lands bc they know I run a lot of ramp spells. Normal LD spells (Stone Rain, Sinkhole) arent that popular and dont hit my mountain (which isnt that much on the table on early turns).
I think the difference is on the future sight/ magus of the future-thing. Since i dont run this spells I am not so affraid of going screwed.
You dont have the spoiler-mulligan? thats sad ;( Well I am always excited about drawing minds desire but on the start hand its not that great.
I will consider playin TaN, sounds good to have witness and palinchron etc.in play. But to have another 7-9 Mana spell in the deck...i dont know. we´ll see.
On the sweeper: I ment SWEEPER not only 2-1 in form of a kavu. Against boros and WW Firespout look realy great. You are right on Starstorm, dual RR is to much for my deck. I will try Firespout I can also transmute for it :D
Some time passed since I have posted my build of this awesome combo deck. I have adopted some tabris's ideas and started to teste version with red.
This version is trying to have enought powers to fight with hate. So single gaddock, Aven Mindcensor, Winter orb or others can be handeled with several possible spells. The main goal of this build is not just kill anything, that harms the combo, but get realy draw more relevant combopieces, that work well alone and are cool when combined. Next I focused on avoiding situations of getting mana screwed. This deck needs esentially 6 lands in play to be able to kill and to get these lands soon enought is priority.
To power 4c manabase I found sufficient to play 4 duals(UG, UW, UR, GW) and 8 fetches (BW and RW fetches are not included). When having enough space and land searchers, one doesn't realy need to fetch just duals. But sometimes is dual realy needed. Deck is quite color hungry (futuresight+magus, cryptic command) + the fact it is 4c.
Win conditions: the only win condion of this deck remained palinchron going for infinite mana to stroke. I dont think it is possible to beat oponent with those several critters, that aren't walls and are in deck. Oh, yes, there is Rude Avakening, but one must be realy lucky to kill with this. Other win cons i found redundant, but one can add banefire just for the feeling ;-)
I tested Swan combo in here, but seemed pretty inconsistent. The pieces of this combo are weak on their own - swans are possible way for oponent to refill his hand, Chain is lousy burn spell, that can be turned against us and finnaly Conflagrate is realy not good X spell on its own(that need RR to be flashbacked). Killing oponent in one turn is even more mana hungry that traditonal palinchron combo and still one need 2 specific cards to combo out (same number as with palinchron). Sure it can be adopted in this deck, but i would rather augment the odds comboing out with palinchron (Tooth and Nail, Wargate, Drift phantasm->Wargate act like next copies of palinchron), than mix two weaker strategies.
From the same reasons i neglected Mind's Desire. Don't get me wrong - Desire is ultra cool in Hight Tide deck. But comparing these two decklists one finds, that the main ideas are completely different. Tide deck runs lots of cheap cantrips to power Mind's Desire. Me and even tabris neglected nearly all cheap cantrip's as unavailing and simply not good enough. High Tide deck aims to win in one HUGE turn unlike Hearth Beat. Here it is usual to spread combo across several turns due to timewarp efects and regrowthing them. Time warp efects are not great friens to Mind Desire. Mind Desire would require more spells like Frantic Search, Ideas Unbound or even Snap + cheep cantrips. These spells are on the other hand not that great agains control decks, since they come with some sort of cards disadvantage.
I agree, that this deck needs strong draw engine and as the best one I found Future sight. FS is pretty much combo enabler and combinig it with some other spells like SDT is quite ridiculous. SDT and Helm of avakening are autoincludes in this deck and FS adds to them more comboish feel. FS work certainly better way in drawing entire deck and gaining all needed combopieces that Swan would do. Missing pieces can be also found with Tooth&Nail + Wargate since they tutor eiher for Magus or the rest of this combo.
Why is it 4c?
Red provides: Mana Flare, Firespout and Electrolyze (and that is all ;-)
White provedes : Wall of Omens, Wargate, STP, Sunscape Familiar, Oblivion Ring and finally Mirrari's Wake
Earlier mentioned manabase can handle both litle splashes without any problems(deck contains 8-9 land tutor spells, so it is not that complicated to fix colors). Even thought the red splash seems unnecessary, the two first spell adds speed and best protection against creatures, one can imagine. Firespout is absolutely wrecking creature based strategies, without almost any sideefects. And plaing Mana Flare for 3 mana is just way better than Idylic tutor to gain hearthbeat and then play it for 6 mana. With either hearth beat and manaflare it is sometimes pretty good to sneak them both into play (can happen more frequently than with just two hearthbeat efects in the deck). Electrolyze is bolt that cantrips - simple and quite effecient.
My current decklist:
// Lands
8 [UNH] Forest
8 [UNH] Island
2 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Forest
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Mountain
1 [R] Tropical Island
1 [A] Savannah
1 [A] Tundra
1 [A] Volcanic Island
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
// Engine
1 [UL] Palinchron
1 [A] Mana Flare
1 [CHK] Heartbeat of Spring
1 [JU] Mirari's Wake
1 [ON] Future Sight
1 [FUT] Magus of the Future
//Untap
1 [US] Turnabout
1 [P3] Capture of Jingzhou
1 [P2] Temporal Manipulation
1 [TE] Time Warp
1 [US] Time Spiral
1 [US] Exhaustion
1 [FD] Rude Awakening
1 [MI] Early Harvest
1 [UD] Treachery
//Tutors
1 [RAV] Drift of Phantasms
1 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
1 [8E] Merchant Scroll
1 [ARB] Wargate
1 [MR] Tooth and Nail
//Regrowth
1 [10E] Recollect
1 [JGC] Regrowth
1 [TO] Nostalgic Dreams
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
//Acceleration
1 [TSP] Search for Tomorrow
1 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 [MI] Wall of Roots
1 [PS] Sunscape Familiar
1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
1 [P3] Three Visits
1 [5E] Nature's Lore
1 [RAV] Farseek
1 [CS] Into the North
1 [8E] Rampant Growth
1 [WWK] Explore
1 [IN] Harrow
1 [CHK] Kodama's Reach
1 [MR] Solemn Simulacrum
//Protection
1 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
1 [RAV] Carven Caryatid
1 [ROE] Wall of Omens
1 [OD] Moment's Peace
1 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
1 [SHM] Firespout
1 [CHP] Electrolyze
1 [IN] Repulse
1 [LRW] Cryptic Command
1 [MOR] Negate
1 [ARE] Mana Leak
1 [RAV] Remand
1 [4E] Counterspell
1 [LG] Mana Drain
1 [AL] Force of Will
1 [FD] Condescend
1 [RAV] Muddle the Mixture
//Draw
1 [US] Stroke of Genius
1 [A] Braingeyser
1 [RAV] Compulsive Research
1 [TSP] Careful Consideration
1 [FUT] Foresee
1 [OD] Concentrate
1 [FNM] Fact or Fiction
1 [REW] Harmonize
1 [10E] Tidings
1 [MOR] Mind Spring
//Bussines
1 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [SHM] Manamorphose
Some recent cuts & Replaces
- Tangle : Firespout + Electrolyze + Cryptic Command grant enough creature hate. Tangle quite bad against control - almost dead draw since his subsitutes have eiter stronger effect or cantrips.
- Memory Lapse - replaced with Muddle, which is more utility counter and can tutor for regrowth, Braingeyser,..
- Idylic tutor - with 4th color it became redundant
- Repeal - Cryptic command is strictly better
- Jungle Barrier - replaced with Wall of omens and Solem
- Impulse - not bad card, but was not performing well
- Solitary Confidement - dead card against control and was not granting victory against agro either
+ Manamorfose - it suplies missing colors when needed - with M11 it will be propably replaced with Cultivate
+ Kodama's Reach - one of the best land tutoring spells, I returned to it at the end again.
+ red cards
Comments are welcome, I would realy appreciate your decklist and comments. I hope, this deck gained some popularity recently thaks to this forum.
;)
Underline comment - this decklist does not contain Timetwister, because i dont own it in real life. Time reversal will be though nice addition.
Here is my version of this deck. There are few cards I could cut out, like Garruk and some of creatures, but so far this have been working rather well. All ideas are welcome for sure!
_____________________________________
Lands: 34
13 Island
10 Forest
Mountain
Tropical Island
Breeding Pool
Volcanic Island
Steam Vents
Taiga
Stomping Ground
Academy Ruins
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Wooded Foothills
Verdant Catacombs
Creatures:
Wall of Blossoms
Trinket Mage
Eternal Witness
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Palinchron
Oracle of Mul Daya - awesome creature if it manages to stay alive for awhile. I`ve been testing Primeval Titan too, it`s nice meat and it`s ability helps this deck quite much.
Magus of the Future
Drift of Phantasm - to find one of win conditions or Firespout/Vedalken Shackles
Counterspells:
Cryptic Command
Voidslime
Mana Leak
Counterspell
Remand
Memory Lapse
Negate
Mana Drain
Condescend
Force of Will
Draw and tutors:
Ancestral Visions
Ponder
Impulse
Mind Spring
Jace Beleren
Compulsive Research
Careful Consideration
Concentrate
Harmonize
Fact of Fiction
Personal Tutor
Intuition
Gifts Ungiven
Mana acceleration:
Search for Tomorrow
Wild Growth
Utopia Sprawl
Wall of Roots
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Rampant Growth
Explore
Nature`s Lore
Farseek
Cultivate
Kodoma`s Reach
Garruk Wildspeaker
Turnabout
Rest:
Sensei`s Diving Top
Regrowth
Moment`s Peace
Firespout
Vedalken Shackles
Exhaustion
Krosan Grip
Heartbeat of Spring
Mana Flare
Braingeyser
Stroke of Genius
Banefire
Primal Command - to search Palinchron or Emrakul.
Time Warp
Temporal Manipultation - Missing last Capture of Jingzhou
Future Sight
Rude Awakening
Time Spiral
All is Dust
Mindslaver
Tooth and Nail
I have also though about revisiting the deck. I don't like that you stuff the deck with all those fancy cards that do nothing until you already have mana enchantment going. Original deck was so effective as it had no dead draws like Emrakul, T & N or Mindslaver. Lightstorm's list looks more like turboland to me, which is fine deck at itself, but I'd like the deck more focused. 30+ lands, dozen rampant growths, two Heartbeats, dozen untappers, eight best counters, four to five Regrowths, some fogs and the rest just draw/tutor/filter. Stroke/Invoke the Firemind/Rude Awakening are more than enough for actually winning the game.
I absolutly agree with Naste here. Focus on the combo. Emrakul is interesting though. With High Tide or Rude Awakening it maybe a viable strategy.
When speaking about Emrakul :-)
What I am going to tell here is pretty much untested, but it came across my mind, when the biggest Eldrazi was first spoiled.
Have someone noticed, that Palinchron + Sneak Attack = ininite mana? + it cheats Emrakul which is generally GG. Against heavy counter decks Emrakul could be nice option (despite Bribery).
Power Artifact and Grim Monolith is endless mana with UU2. You'd need a third card for the kill, or several others with tilt to colorless to set up a superior board position. This works somewhat in staxx/accelerated blue which already have suitable tutors in place to search for the Grim Monolith and _may_ utilize Power Artifact alone to some extent.
In your scenario, with 2RUU and two cards you get infinite mana too, but the tutors aren't there, just the draw. And Sneak Attack stuck in your hand sounds quite awful scenario.
All I'm saying is that Sneak Attack, while nice, doesn't feel to fit well into the frame of a High Tide/Heartbeat-combo, even with Emrakul.
But nice find (didn't know of the combo) and definitely something to try, so go for it and let us know!
I dont question Power Artifact and Grim Monolith combo - I think it is weaker than this in our context, just because the deck, that normally runs them does not usually consider it to be main win condition and therfore the the tutoring for third win con might be problem (+this combo produce only color less mana).
Hearhtbeat deck without Palinchron is pile of dummy spells, that either draws or ramps or untaps lands. The only thing it glues together is Palinchron. U always need Palinchron to win. So if there is another enabler ie. Sneak Atack, it might be good. Winning via Sneak Attack could utilize some tutors, that were left behind in current builds - I mean Wordly tutor and Sylvan tutor. But I agree, that general aproach to this deck does not works well with Sneak Attack. This version would need more creatures, that are interesting on their own and works for the combo. This is problem, that I see.
@Nastaboi: Could you post your latest list?
I played some games with my old list but wasnt working that great ;)
Sure. Note that this is not tuned at all, just 100 first cards that I though I wanted to play. I realize that I'm missing some essentials, you may point them if I don't notice it myself.
// Lands (30)
7 Fetchlands (U/G)
9 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
10 Snow-Covered Island
3 Duals
// Acceleration (10) (just the best ones)
1 Search for Tomorrow
1 Wall of Roots
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Three Visits
1 Into the North
1 Nature's Lore
1 Rampant Growth
1 Explore
1 Farseek
1 Harrow
// Draw/tutor (25) (maybe too much clumsy draw)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Personal Tutor
1 Sylvan Library
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Impulse
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Compulsive Research
1 Timetwister
1 Intuition
1 Deep Analysis
1 Harmonize
1 Concentrate
1 Careful Consideration
1 Foresee
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Future Sight
1 Tidings
1 Braingeyser
1 Mind Spring
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Invoke the Firemind (it really works)
// Regrowth (4) (could be five)
1 Regrowth
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Recollect
1 Eternal Witness
// Combo (15) (forgot to add Treachery, it surely belongs)
1 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Mana Flare
1 Frantic Search
1 Early Harvest
1 Turnabout
1 Time Warp
1 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Peregrine Drake
1 Rude Awakening
1 Panoptic Mirror (random but too tempting with 4 walks)
1 Time Spiral
1 Mind's Desire
1 Walk the Aeons
1 Palinchron
// Control (16) (could use more slots)
1 Mana Leak
1 Mana Drain
1 Remand
1 Arcane Denial
1 Delay
1 Negate
1 Memory Lapse
1 Tangle
1 Lull
1 Moment's Peace
1 Constant Mists
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Firespout
1 Pact of Negation
1 Force of Will
1 Condescend
Cut Meditate as more focus on time walks. Helms not in as lesser need to chain spells, could be added. Counterspells with double mana cost avoided. Propably needs some bounce.
Nastaboi: I see one big problem in your deck. It can't handle hate(Winter Orb, Gaddock, Mindcesor, Tefferi). Only proactive card, that solves something is Firespout and that is not enought in my opinion. Your deck is too much "all in beat". Pernament hate is one thing and counter wars with control is another. I think u run too few mana+acc to start the engine in time consistently.
Quote from: Nastaboi on 03-10-2010, 10:44:23 AM
Propably needs some bounce.
Too few mana/acc is balanced by mulliganing aggressively.
I am testing Emrakul for some time and it seems realy solid to me. It fit's nicely in the deck. The biggest upside of him in the deck is the fact, that the deck has two effective ways of winning. One through palinchron, and the second one through emrakul. So deck itself cant be disrupted just by removing or stealing palinchron. More kills are still done by palinchron combo, but emrakul works nicely as backup. The fact, it cant be countered realy helps against control. I would recommend Emrakul just in more controlish builds of Heartbeat decks. I dont think it would do much good in Nastaboi's list.
I would emphasize one more thing - I realy like fun times, when hardcasting Emrakul and I watching the the pain in opponents face :-)
Btw. is anyone testing UGrw version of this deck, or everyone stuck with UGr version?