I wanted to create RUG deck that plays some like Pod decks in Standard and some like RUG Delver decks in Legacy. Delver itself ended up never flipping, but the deck itself proved to be quite competent. Mostly it just beats face. More advise is always needed, so here goes:
Lands (34):
9 fetch
3 dual
3 shock
3 filter
3 M10/INN dual
Copperline Gorge
4 Island
2 Forest
Mountain
Raging Ravine
Treetop Village
Dryad Arbor
Wasteland
Tectonic Edge
The deck is very hungry for colored mana, which makes playing around hate somewhat difficult. I take it as a calculated risk.
Creatures (35):
Birds of Paradise
Noble Hierarch
Fyndhorn Elves
Llanowar Elves
Arbor Elf
Orcish Lumberjack
Grim Lavamancer
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Lotus Cobra
Tarmogoyf
Fauna Shaman
Scavenging Ooze
Phantasmal Image
Snapcaster Mage
Edric, Spymaster of Tresh
Vithian Renegades
Kitchen Finks
Eternal Witness
Vendilion Clique
Burning-Tree Shaman
Phyrexian Metamorph
Vengevine
Bloodbraid Elf
Hero of the Oxid Ridge
Venser, Shaper Savant
Thrun, the Last Troll
Glen Elendra Archmage
Flametongue Kavu
Sower of Temptation
Urabrask, the Hidden
Acidic Slime
Arc-Slogger
Precursor Golem
Inferno Titan
Primeval Titan / Progenitus
Notice flat mana curve. I could use more good two-drops, but there are not that many. Haste guys are quite effective, I wonder if there are other worth playing. Guide maybe. Not sure about NO target, Titan is hardcastable but not always game over.
Counters (11):
Stifle
Spell Snare
Spell Pierce
Daze
Counterspell
Mana Drain
Mana Leak
Remand
Memory Lapse
Cryptic Command
Force of Will
Mostly there to generate tempo. Stifle was just thrown there, could be in or out. Other options include Miscalculation, Deprive, Logic Knot.
Burn (6):
Lightning Bolt
Chain Lightning
Magma Jet
Psionic Blast
Char
Brimstone Volley
Searing Blaze was left out due its difficult mana cost. Other options (Fire/Ice, Staggershock, Electrolyze) seem worse to me unless you can prove otherwise.
Stuff (14):
Sensei's Divingin Top
Brainstorm
Preordain
Ponder
Into the Roil
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Feast and Famine
Birthing Pod
Garruk Wildspeaker
Jace, the Mind Scuptor
Natural Order
Treachery
Bribery
Green Sun's Zenith
Don't know about the other sword, but the rest is pretty solid. Other options include Control Magic and more creatures/burn/counters. While cantrips are okay, I don't want to be drawing cards and not advancing board position in any point of a game.
So; bad cards, obvious misses, any suggestions, questions welcome!
No kiki jiki?
fail...
also no tezzeret to fetch for pod, and burning tree shaman is really bad
Thanks for your constructive and well reasoned feedback.
Kiki-Jiki does not beat face or help ramping to titan really efficiently, sucks without Pod and is even really difficult to cast. This deck wants to beat face, not to be too cute. For same reason I'm running efficient damage sources like Burning-Tree Shaman. I don't know if I want another Pod that costs 5, my instincts say no. The deck can operate without it pretty well, but I will consider it.
Here is my list (much more like a RUG-Control rather than Aggro)
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rug-control-34/ (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rug-control-34/)
Hm, Avalanche Riders is one haste creature I did not try out, though it comes with a price. I'd play Boggart Ram-Gang if fetching basic island wasn't so appealing.
yeah people dont expect haste creatures (except BBE and the Gang and that only in aggro decks) and it is a good pod creature to fetch
Why wouldn`T you play kiki jiki? he always copies your best creature like inferno titan or avanlanche riders.
No point in not playing him in this deck.
And yes you want another pod trust me on this :D
Besides that, i don`t think that this is good enough to be Tier 1 as an aggro deck, list jsut looks like a worse naya to me, better built it more controlish m8
Quote from: W0lf on 09-12-2011, 05:43:02 PM
Why wouldn`T you play kiki jiki? he always copies your best creature like inferno titan or avanlanche riders.
No point in not playing him in this deck.
And yes you want another pod trust me on this :D
If you have Inferno in play you should be winning anyway. Problem with Kiki-Jiki is that you must have another creature (preferably a good one) in play. It costs 5 (triple caster) which is a lot if you use it to copy low cost creatures. Also being a 2/2 makes it too vulnerable to removal for a five cost creature. If you look at the list, there are lots of Legendary creatures and creatures that doesn't produce very much value when copied (like BBE, Vengevine, Image, Sower, Arc-Slogger, Scavenging Ooze, Fauna Shaman etc.). So actually there's no point playing him without the combo.
Tezzeret also costs too much and doesn't have enough utility to be played. The deck should be evolved in a very different direction to have sufficient support for Tezzeret. But that wouldn't be the same deck any more :(
You shouldn`t underestimate the Power of Birthing Pod, even for 5 mana this is rediciously good.
Also Precursor+ kiki sick-o xD
I don't know. Tezzeret just as a tutor for Birthing Pod seems okay to me. It doesn't do a whole lot if the Pod is in the bin, but it certainly gives a presence that your opponent under most circumstances can't ignore even though it has no significant value to you. If you have Pod out, Tez gives you an extra activation every turn. Also, him fetching Feast and Famine or SDT is not entirely horrible. Fire & ice shouldn't be in the deck, I think. Drawing two swords is just terribad.
What comes to the deck itself, I think removing every mediocre non-creature for a mediocre creature seems good. For example, Stifle always has a target, but outside of Stifling an early fetch, they rarely are worth of a card. It's also a spell that requires you to tie one mana every turn just to hope you see a target worthy enough. Having a creature as a Pod target is more valuable than having an equally good spell (especially a reactive one) that does the same.
Cards I would consider:
Hero of Oxid Ridge - I guess this is in the deck already, or you have some sweet tech ;)
Giant Solifuge - Seems better than Vengevine.
Siege-Gang Commander - Probably superior to Arc-Slogger due to Pod. This a lot coming from a guy *loves* the old Slogs. Having them both seems okay, though.
Kessig Wolf Run - Might be impossible to add because of mana problems, but gives a sweet target for Primeval. Not good enough you you change the NO target.
I would consider cutting the Preordains and Ponders as they lose a _lot_ of value due to spoils-mulligan. They are good later or when you have a empty slot in curve, but you don't need them to help you keep otherwise poor hands as you can just mulligan towards better hand. If you actively look for Pod, or plan to abuse the hell of it, I think you are better off just having more creatures to exploit. I do know those are very good spells, so if you have cards you find underperforming on a regular basis, or just don't have creatures to add, they are great placeholders. It's very rare to be disappointed when you just topdecked a Preordain.
EDIT - fixed a typo
Kessig wolf run is rly nice in this deck, adds some power to your whimpy creatures + kills phantasmal image
I could cut Ponder but will keep Preordain. I had Wolf Run in the deck for a short while and it ended up just plain sucking. Stifle is just a placeholder as already mentioned.
I think there are plenty of ways to build RUG right now. At the moment this version looks a bit too all over the place. You could go more aggro route by playing some fish and tempo stuff or controlish by adding a few bombs and tweaking manas to support them or even play a ramp version with Scapeshift! Strongest versions I have seen so far were in fact the combo versions. As a midrangey deck this does indeed look like a worse Bant (not naya). Personally I will surely be playing some sort of Delver/Mongoose-version in the near future :)
I still see this deck has a lot of potential and I am wondering if you made any changes to your list for the last month.
I personally dont like counterspells too much and I would play creatures instead but some of them are fine. I also love EtB creatures and they are especially good for Pod deck.
I give you a list of creatures that are not in your list and can fit into this deck more or less - depends if it is control version or aggro version of your Pod deck:
Viridian Emissary - I think he is just great for this deck and he is good with Pod
Wall of Blossoms - only if you play control version of this deck
Goblin War Marshal – probably better in control version, stops the initial pressure and gives you some time to evolve
Regrowth – only in control version, usually I dont like this kind of cards cause they are random but when you focus more on finding Pod and keeping Pod in the game, this can help and you have other very good targets for it anyway
Fire Imp - not such a good beater but helps a lot and you might find him with Pod from time to time
Troll Ascetic - I play Pod myself and I quite often go like - sac 2 cc creature find this one (opponent cant kill it so easily), then sac this and find Thrun ... you know, what I mean?
Yavimaya Dryad - just an idea, works for my RG version and can be even better in 3 color deck but she has not such a good damage potential; here is important to say that dryad is there only for having 2 power, all the creatures like Wood Elves are just bad
Fabricate – If I played Pod with blue I would play this card since i usually play more creatures but i agree that sometimes you dont want tutor and you want something else
Obsidian Baloth - this guy is terribly great especially when you play Pod for optional cc and he is quite a body
Solemn Simulacrum - if you play Tezzeret he is even better and you play 3 colors, I dont play blue and dont have third color and he is very helpfull
Chandra, the Firebrand – worth of trying, works very well for me
Deranged Hermit – probably not that special for you but I like him when I get swarmed by little weenie suckers, he is still an adept in my deck to put out, he is also the target for my Zenith for 5 – he is usually better than Acidic Slime
Primal Command – just an idea, either you like this card or not
Siege-Gang Commander – already mentioned, I think he is better than Arc Slogger, especially in the deck that has tutor engine
Tezzeret – I would really play him
Mulldrifter – better in control version probably
Wurmcoil Engine – just an idea
I have such Deck too. So I play plenty of control stuff and the Kiki-Jiki/Splinter Twin + Deceiver Exarch/Pestermite Combo as well. Here is my list:
Lands (35)
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Volcanic Island
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Tundra
1x Arid Mesa
1x Tropical Island
1x Windswept Heath
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Raging Ravine
1x Great Furnace
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Academy Ruins
1x Rootbound Crag
1x Copperline Gorge
1x Tolaria West
1x Steam Vents
1x Breeding Pool
1x Flooded Grove
1x Stomping Ground
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x Mountain
1x Tree of Tales
1x Forest
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Island
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Flooded Strand
1x City of Brass
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Maze of Ith
1x Polluted Delta
1x Wasteland
1x Verdant Catacombs
Creatures (36)
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Inferno Titan
1x Wall of Blossoms
1x Man-o'-War
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Ghitu Slinger
1x Eternal Witness
1x Spike Weaver
1x Avalanche Riders
1x Gilded Drake
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Deceiver Exarch
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Pestermite
1x Ravenous Baboons
1x Acidic Slime
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Flametongue Kavu
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Bloodbraid Elf
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Viridian Corrupter
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Trinket Mage
1x Body Double
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Sower of Temptation
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Primeval Titan
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Spellskite
1x Llanowar Elves
Spells (26)
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sylvan Library
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Brainstorm
1x Treachery
1x Remand
1x Mana Drain
1x Beast Within
1x Sudden Shock
1x Ice (Fire/Ice)
1x Force of Will
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Natural Order
1x Firespout
1x Bribery
1x Preordain
1x Ancestral Vision
1x Arc Trail
1x Arc Lightning
1x Chain Lightning
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Birthing Pod
1x Pithing Needle
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Splinter Twin
Planeswalker (3)
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Garruk Relentless
I think, most of the card choices are clear. ;)