So. Worldspine... thing. Hooray for Nat Order into 30 power with Trample I guess? These "I Win Lols" permanents are goddamn stupid. But will they stop? Nno sir, so stop playing your favourite deck and ramp into FATTIES. Isn't Magic so FUN? Nevermind I am an idiot and cannot read. In other news, Gatecreeper Vine and the Guildgates are going to be huge in Pauper.
(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135264&d=1346731261)
Fatties without immediate (or either matchup and/or next turn game winning) effect are nearly worthless IMO.
But it seems that the new set will have a quite deep quality level as there are already many playables announced within the first 84 cards.:
- Basic lands ;D
- All three charms (two are great and even the third one is a playable)
- Both planeswalkers (with Vraska being nuts IMO)
- Most of the Golgari spells (especially the Scavage mechanic with Dreg Mauler as spearhead, but also the other cards in combination with the Dredge mechanic)
- All three Hybrid spells are playable
- some single cards like: Dreadbore, Rakdos's Return, Chromatic Lantern, Gatecreeper Vine
- certainly the reprint of Shockduals
It also seems that there will be some playables with the other new mechanics Overload (Mizzium Mortars) and detain (Lyev Skynight). The Unleash mechanic itself is also nice but P/T ratio of the spoiled cards is not good enough to find play. Just Populate seems to be a "meh" mechanic.
I don't know how to abuse the other Izzet cards like Guttersnipe, Goblin Electronmancer, Guildmage and Niv-Mizzet. The effect is strong but they are all very fragile and cost intensive.
IMO price tags for the planeswalker will be very high again and Niv-Mizzet will cause havoc within the Commander community (but I doubt that he will see other Constructed play). Also some other cards like Dreadbore and Rakdos´s Return could start with a 2-digit EUR price. The shock duals will certainly also have its high price.
Even if the rest of the set is non-playable I would be happy with the outcome. Return to Ravnica could be one of the sets where you don't loose money when you open boosters.
Indeed, the new set looks very promising already. However, I fear that some of the good Rakdos cards (Dreadbore comes to mind) will not be that relevant in our Highlander format since BR as a colour combination is not that common. However, Selesyna, Azorius and Golgari come up with some really interesting cards.
On a side note: does anyone know how they split up the guild cards in the whole "Return to Ravnica" block?
If I remember correctly, the first "Ravnica: City of Guilds" block brought 3 or 4 guilds with each set (so that at the end of the block all 10 guilds were covered).
Now in the set "Return to Ravnica" we already see cards of Rakdos, Selesnya, Azorius, Golgari and Izzet. Could it be that they bring now 5 guilds in each of the first two sets and leave the 3rd set to have more options during development?
They'll be five guilds in RTR and the other five in Gatecrash. Both are large sets and will be drafted as 3x RTR and 3x GTC. Third small set will have something for everybody, and draft format will then be (small set) - GTC - RTR.
Supreme Verdict 1WWU
Supreme Verdict can't be countered.
Destroy all Creatures.
Quote from: Mir on 06-09-2012, 10:09:57 AM
Supreme Verdict 1WWU
Supreme Verdict can't be countered.
Destroy all Creatures.
Exactly what I thought. :P 3rd CC4 Wrath of God in a typical colour combination. I like it very much.
This and Abrupt decay are going to make some trouble to my monoblue HL deck if I want to keep it monoblue.
Few people predicted that there will be cards which exile spells. Quite a lot of "Cant be countered" spells are coming in this set, and I fear that there will be only few possibilites to keep control strong - cards like Venser, Shaper savant, Time stop and/or Mindbreak trap. However most of them were proven suboptimal... :/
Misdirection will be bit more popular after this set - at least against Abrupt decay.
Slow control decks don't even mind countering these spells. These have been printed to bring down aggro-control strategies, namely Delver decks.
Supreme Verdict and Abrupt Decay are quite sexy and pretty good in HL. That "uncounterable" clause is mostly irrelevant right now, but definitively doesn't hurt. Very good, both of them.
Gatecreeper Vine - I like in Pattern. Irrelevant body, but if it gains you ~3 life and fetches you a basic, it's a fine deal for two mana.
Worldspine Wurm - is fun with Sneak Attack, but there are probably better options as you can't really go all-in on Sneak Attack with this format. If they print two Sneak Attacks (with different names ofc) more, this becomes good.
Azorius Charm - Gives some tempo. Turn two Memory Lapse their two-drop gives them relatively weak top deck and potential bump in the curve. Also cycles and the lifelink probably matter more often than you would think. Pretty good.
Collective Blessing - I think this is good in tokens. Believe it or not, this is not obvious as there are plenty pretty good finishers with CMC 5+. Too bad there is no trample. Overrun-enchantment sounds sweet and a potential flavor nightmare.
Dreadbore - I like very much. Mainly because this sees play in decks I want to play (read: not aggro).
Dreg Mangler - Probably good enough in 5c aggro. I think Scavenge is much more powerful mechanic than it originally seems and Wizards clearly makes it cheap enough to see constructed play.
Goblin Electromancer - If there is a combo, sure. Probably no-show otherwise.
Grisly Salvage - Needs graveyard synergies to be good, so Reanimator should find this attractive. Netting a land or looter and potentially dumping huge things and Unburial Rites in the 'yard. I would play this in that deck.
Izzet Charm - Careful Study, Dead or Spell Pierce. That's very flexible set of cards. Great in decks that want to use Careful Study regularly, decent-ish otherwise, at least it can get you back in the game when flooded.
Lotleth Troll - I don't have any idea where to put this card in. I guess it's good somewhere, but those decks might not for competitive play. It's aggressively costed enough that it is only slightly awkward in aggro. Difficult card to evaluate.
Lyev Skyknight - I'm not in Lyev with this card, but it's not bad.
Rakdos's Return - Dump five mana into this card and you have a decent deal. Shame this doesn't kill creatures, but if there is a color combination that can handle few creatures, it's red-black.
Selesnya Charm - As with all the charms, all of these are good abilities, although the +2/+2 is just there to end the game pretty much. Killing a game-ender at instant speed is exactly what GW is usually lacking, so the restriction of the removal part isn't huge, although it's still pretty significant. 2/2 instant Knight is fine if the board is empty and both of you are in top-deck wars. Weakest of the Charms so far, in my opinion, but I could see this played somewhere.
Vraska the Unseen - Decent walker. Pretty much aims to gain some value before dying. This doesn't win any games by itself, but removal and couple of life is a good deal from time to time. In board stalls this is incredibly hard to kill, but to compensate, the ultimate is really weak. Very Gideonish.
Dryad Militant - Hate-lion? Not much to say, not much to add. Savannah Lions is pretty good in some decks and this is just way better.
Slitherhead - Aww.. how cute. Zero mana abilities that work from graveyard are potentially broken, although it's really hard to see how that would be accomplished with this dude. Might also be playable as a beater dork if you have some zombie (or plant!) synergies.
Quote from: Nastaboi on 06-09-2012, 06:58:11 PM
Slow control decks don't even mind countering these spells. These have been printed to bring down aggro-control strategies, namely Delver decks.
Abrupt decay is being discussed by legacy players as first card which can sucesfully destroy infamous Countertop lock. Not true, there was also Krosan Grip some time ago, but I have to agree that this is way better. Also the reason why I started to think about Psychic battle in my deck, but its less versatile...
At all the set looks to change a lot of things, but still I fear that the Hasbro wants to turn MTG into "Clash of the summons".
Jarad's Orders, Jarad's Orders, just following 'em all game long...
(http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135504&d=1347336282)
question concerning izzet charm. when is that card legal in HL? it has been released in the duel deck golgari vs. izzet and has been legal in legacy since september 7th. it wont be legal in standard until the set release. are there rules/guidelines for this scenario? thank you.
btw - most difficult to eavulate card ever: nivmagus elemental.
Quote from: tonytahiti on 12-09-2012, 01:52:23 PMbtw - most difficult to eavulate card ever: nivmagus elemental.
I am pretty sure it's just bad. Can't work out a scenario where it's good enough to offset the times it's just plain weak. Even if RDW goes first turn it, turn two two burn spells, it's good. As it hits more than the burn would deal if it connects again, but getting the guy removed is just beyond horrible. Can't imagine wanting to play this in blue decks, as every blue instant or sorcery is better than two Battlegrowths.
So, we have an Oblivion Ring-pulse. In rare. Goddamn I love removal in Rare.
In other formats yes, in highlander I highly doubt this card will have any impact. With 1WU it's harder to cast than Oblivion Ring and except tokens there shouldn't be more than one permanent with the same name (at least not on the other side of the table).
Izzet charm - legal from now on?
I´ll go with yes just to avoid confusion.
Quote from: haju on 12-09-2012, 11:03:54 PM
In other formats yes, in highlander I highly doubt this card will have any impact. With 1WU it's harder to cast than Oblivion Ring and except tokens there shouldn't be more than one permanent with the same name (at least not on the other side of the table).
Wait, what? O-Ring is pretty much an universal inclusion in any white deck. If your deck can support the UW mana (hello Bant/Esper), it's just as good. This is Blue-White Maelstrom Pulse, which is great card even in our format. Switching the colors doesn't make it worse.
I also like the Blue Zenith that gains life. Limited uses, but I like playing decks that utilize these kind of cards.
Cyclonic Rift is another very interesting card. Note that if you pay the kicker cost, this gets around hexproof and protections.
I think that the new O-Ring will see play, too. It's just too good to not play it. I always hated running stuff like Disenchant / Ancient Grudge / Nature's Claim in my controlish decks(although it is somewhat necessary, especially when Pod was still legal).
However, I am more excited about the Abrupt Decay and the uncounterable CMC '4 Wrath of God'.
Whatever we will see next, RTR will have so much impact on our format like no other set before for a long long time. 118 cards spoiled so far and already 5+ cards that seem viable / playable (depending on the deck of course) - that's just SO good. I'm really exicted for the whole block.
This Edition is really interesting, there are really much cards to consider. But only a few will be a stable in highlander. All others will be seen rarely.
Extremly Good:
Abrupt Decay -- Best Card in Set. You can shot almost everything for 2 Mana, and it's uncounterable. This Card will even change Legacy and weakens the whole amount of Tarmogoyf-Counterbalance-Decks. This Card will be the most expensive card of the set.
Loxodon Smiter -- 3 Mana 4/4 uncounterable and safe from discard-spells. This will replace Woolly Thoctar or Thrun, the Last Troll in most decks.
Dryad Militant -- 2/1 for one mana. Much better than Tattermunge Maniac. And it even removes a few cards in grave(during game).
Chromatic Lantern -- Most Staxx Decks play already Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth because of much cards like Maze of Ith; Mishra's Workshop; The Tabernacle of Pendrel Vale and this card will mainly support this(Urborg) use. It also fixes every color needed. This card is as strong like Coalition Relic.
Good:
Dreg Mangler -- Boggart Ram Gang for 2 colored and colorles Mana. And in the afterlife you get 3 +1/1 counters for 5 Mana.
Cyclonic Rift -- Interesting Card. You could compare it to Into the Roil and Upheaval. It's directly like Into the Roil for a higher Kicker-cost. And it's like Upheaval for nonlands. But the best part in Upheaval is that the lands are gone and this is not part of this card. It's a good card but not as good as you maybe think, 7 Mana is really much.
Hypersonic Dragon -- You never mentioned this card. 5 Mana 4/4 Flying Haste and you could cast all Sorcery's like Chain Lightning again. This creature is really good.
Semi Good:
Desecration Demon -- Like Abyssal Persecutor. No one likes to safrice a creature and it has no negative effect like Abyssal Persecutor. This card is good but Abyssal persecutor is still a little better.
Ash Zealot -- 2 Mana 2/2 Haste First Strike. This Card is ideal for RDW
Precint Captain -- 2 Mana 2/2 First Strike. And it gives an early White Weenie extra creatures.
Izzet Charm -- Three interesting cards are inserted here: 1)Shock 2) Spell Pierce 3) Careful Study
Not so good:
Detention Sphere -- You overrate this card. The best part of Oblivion Ring is that it only cost 1 white mana. Here you need 2 colored Mana, that's a high decrease of quality. The worst part of Oblivion Ring is that the exiled creature comes back when Harmonic Sliver and Qasali Pridemage hits the Battlefield.And this mayor drawback is here the same. The Maelstrom Pulse effect of this Hybrid-O_Ring is also bad, when you and your opponent have a Tarmogoyf you can't play this card. And this case happens more often than the case of an opponent creature + Clone.
Counterflux -- Finally a card which defeats TPS. Uncounterable and with Overload it counters all Storm Cards. The problem is you would play more likely Stifle.
Grisly Salvage -- A nice card for Reanimator. But i would prefer Frantic Search.
Underworld Connections -- A new Phyrexian Arena which binds one land. You wouldn't die on low life, but you would also gain nothing.
Supreme Verdict -- You drasticly overrate this card. Was it really a problem of getting a Wrath of God countered? I never watched one case like this.
Goblin Electromancer -- This card would be best in TPS. But such deck would never play such a creature. The good part in a TPS deck is that all creature hate goes into nothing and this card would disturb this strategy. This Goblin would be used in UR.creature deck to safe this one mana for spells.
Worldspine Wurm -- A card for Natural Order, but there are already Progenitus and the all Time favorite Primeval Titan and this will not replace it.
Vraska the Unseen -- Very interesting: 5 Mana for Vindicate.Planeswalker. The + 1 Ability makes it unpleasant to attack it. And the usefulest ability is -3 for (nonland)Vindicate. The Ultimate is interesting and maybe strong, but doesn't come as a surprise so your opponent can prepare for it.
Bad:
Jarad's Orders -- Also overrated 4 Mana is really too much. 2 Mana for Entomb-a-creature and Eladamri'S Call and all Sorcery. I can't imagine someone choose this card.
Sphinx's Revelation -- 3 Colored Mana and then X, that's a bad base for a card. I can't imagine someone chooses this card.
Horrible:
Jace, Architect of Thought -- This a parody of the Jace-concept. Look at the Evolution of Jace: 1) Jace Beleren cost 3 Mana and was decent. 2) Jace, the Mind Sculptor was truly broken for 4 Mana. 3) Jace, Memory Adept cost 5 Mana and was seemly useless. 4) And now we have 4 Mana Jace with a -2 high costed draw ability, a +1 ability which protects a very little from opponent craetures, The ultimate is far away from winning the game. And for that you wait 4 turns with +1 and then on the fived turn you ultimate. This card is the pure horror.
Rakdos's Return -- Blightning was good because it cost only 3 Mana. But this card cost far too much.
Psychic Spiral 4U
Instant
Shuffle all cards from your graveyard into your library. Target player puts that many cards from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
Illus. Ryan Pancoast #47/274
Interesting variation to Time Spiral...
I do have a different understanding of some of the cards:
Loxodon Smiter – This guy has good P/T's and can control the early/mid game if ramped into it. I would play him in many GWx aggro setups but in the end he is just another Fatty as there are not many counters out and the discard bonus is nearly irrelevant --> good
Chromatic Lantern – This card is good as is fixes and ramps. But I would play every on-colour Signet/Talisman before I would think about this one (5C control might be different), so extremely good might be a little enthusiastic --> good
Dreg Mangler – I rate this even better than Goblin Ram Gang and would also auto include this in very GB creature based deck due to its late game power, so "good" is very conservative rated IMO --> extremely good
Hypersonic Dragon – 5 Mana for 4/4 flying haste is not good enough nowadays and the ability is very weak as you will not have a lot of sorceries left when you play this guy. So you need to be very skillfull in topdecking them plus there must be any situational value of the instant effect as well. If we would have one more toughness to withstand next turn Wildfire effect but in this case this cards is very mediocre at best IMO --> not so good / bad
Izzet Charm – A card which is very cheap and extremely flexible has to be valued good to extremely good IMO. For me this is an auto include in every UR build --> extremely good
Detention Sphere – It is another Oblivion Ring for UWx builds not more, not less. All described scenarios (controlling the same card, Upheaval, Disenchant effect, colour screw...) can happen but are quite seldom in comparison to the value that you can exile every non-land permanent for just three mana. I'll put this in every deck which already has Oblivion Ring and Islands. --> good
Grisly Salvage – Very flexible and cheap card, even for non-Reanimator strategies as you can fight mana/creture screw and also improve some other cards and mechanics (Tarmogoyf, KotR, Reveillark, Tombstalker, Snapcaster, Grim Lavamancer...- Scavenging, Flashback, Delve, Dredge). Certainly Reanimator is its main home --> good
Supreme Verdict – I agree that Wrath effects are less sexy with so many cheap "spells on legs" out there (many of them having CIP effects) but what can be "not so good" on a card which will quite often trade 2:1 for you? I mean one problematic scenario (the aggro control player sitting on a counterspell while ramping and attacking) is no more. Aggro decks mostly need to offer two creatures to be fast enough before you take over control. Certainly the main problem that you will get an even scarier threat in the next turn is still there, but at least you have now another Oblivion Ring to take care of ;D --> good
Vraska the Unseen – OK, I rethought the value of this card. I was a little euphoric with my first impression but all in all this is a well balanced plainswalker which is somewhere in the middle of all planeswalkers designed. --> good
Jarad´s Orders – 4 Mana is a lot but I don't think it is a bad card. Most probably it will never see play but I will try it in my 5C Reanimator for fun. I mean how sexy an accelerated Jarad´s Order into Loyal Retainer/Griselbrand, when you have Discard/Counter in your hand -> fun cards cannot be bad ;D
Jace 4.0 – I rate this as 3rd best Jace. He is cheap (for a Planeswalker) and has two relevant abilities. The first ability is better than you think if you play this card in a creature based deck (e.g. Bant). Attacking Jace with one less power will be very difficult when you have you own army in front of. Also there will be some situations where you can race the opponent with your evasion creatures with the first ability. The second ability is certainly very good on its own. This Jace usually generates 2-6 life as it has to be attacked/burned immediately when you use the 2nd ability first and in most of the cases it will be attacked with two guys (or one guy+bolt) as they never know what will happen when you have W open. Depending on how often you can use it, Jace 4.0 is more like an Court Hussar on steroids. --> good
Rakdos`s Return – A Mind Shatter which is not totally dead as a late topdeck. Every deck which ramps into big creatures can use this card with good value. The only problem is that this strategy and the colour combination is quite rare. But the card is far away from being horrible --> good (niche)
I am quite sure that all cards which I valued as extremely good and good will find their place in Highlander. But there are also other cards which I think are format staples:
Lotleth Troll – Extremely cheap, flexible and hard-to-kill creature. This one will make decisions for your opponent extremely difficult – Wild Mongrel on steroids --> extremely good
Dreadbore – Cheap and flexible removal for aggro decks which tap out for playing creatures early anyway. Just RB is difficult to support --> good
Selesnya Charm – All three abilities are good. It's another very cheap and flexible card. Not the same power level as the Izzet Charm but still a staple IMO --> good
Mizzium Mortars – A staple card for UR Wildfire Decks which have problems with toughness 4 creatures, even with sorcery speed and no possibility to kill Planeswalker. Limited use outside of this deck –> good (niche)
Judge's Familiar – staple card for all W, U, UW skies strategies --> good (niche)
Gatecreeper Vine – Sylvan Ranger is a staple and this one is not far behind --> good (niche)
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 14-09-2012, 02:23:53 PM
Dryad Militant -- 2/1 for one mana. Much better than Tattermunge Maniac. And it even removes a few cards in grave(during game).
QuoteDreg Mangler -- Boggart Ram Gang for 2 colored and colorles Mana. And in the afterlife you get 3 +1/1 counters for 5 Mana.
This is true, but the only decks that ever play Maniac or Ram-Gang are Goblins and Monored, so this comparison doesn't really tell how they fit in decks.
Quote
Hypersonic Dragon -- You never mentioned this card. 5 Mana 4/4 Flying Haste and you could cast all Sorcery's like Chain Lightning again.
I didn't really understand what you meant here.
Quote
Desecration Demon -- Like Abyssal Persecutor. No one likes to safrice a creature and it has no negative effect like Abyssal Persecutor. This card is good but Abyssal persecutor is still a little better.
This card is horrible. It can be chumped for ever, and you can't even leave it as a reliable blocker.
Quote
Ash Zealot -- 2 Mana 2/2 Haste First Strike. This Card is ideal for RDW
Would not play in my R/b build. Monored may be lacking playable two-drops so this might do.
Quote
Counterflux -- Finally a card which defeats TPS.
Sarcasm? I didn't know TPS is a deck.
Quote
Jarad's Orders -- Also overrated 4 Mana is really too much. 2 Mana for Entomb-a-creature and Eladamri'S Call and all Sorcery. I can't imagine someone choose this card.
I wouldn't write this off yet. It could find home in some future combo deck where it finds all combo parts at once.
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 14-09-2012, 02:23:53 PMAbrupt Decay -- Best Card in Set. You can shot almost everything for 2 Mana, and it's uncounterable. This Card will even change Legacy and weakens the whole amount of Tarmogoyf-Counterbalance-Decks. This Card will be the most expensive card of the set.
Nope. Glorified Smother is still a Smother. Kills small dudes and O-Rings, but it's nothing spectacular by any means. Potentially format changer in Legacy, but not that big of a deal in HL. This is only a rare, so not the most expensive card either.
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 14-09-2012, 02:23:53 PMHypersonic Dragon -- You never mentioned this card. 5 Mana 4/4 Flying Haste and you could cast all Sorcery's like Chain Lightning again. This creature is really good.
You do realize flash and flashback are two different things? This card blows.
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 14-09-2012, 02:23:53 PMDesecration Demon -- Like Abyssal Persecutor. No one likes to safrice a creature and it has no negative effect like Abyssal Persecutor. This card is good but Abyssal persecutor is still a little better.
Not even close as good as Persecutor. If they sac a guy, this can't even block and this triggers on every combat, so there are plenty of chances to make this tapped if needed. Abyssal Persecutor was a great defensive card and this is more like an attempt to be an aggressive, but I wouldn't play it in aggressive decks. Giving your opponent choices is a classic way of making cards appear way beeter than they are in real life.
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 14-09-2012, 02:23:53 PMAsh Zealot -- 2 Mana 2/2 Haste First Strike. This Card is ideal for RDW
I like this one too. I was wondering if the B/R hybrid that is a 2/1 haste for two is playable, but this surely is. One of the better red two drops ever.
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 14-09-2012, 02:23:53 PMDetention Sphere -- You overrate this card. The best part of Oblivion Ring is that it only cost 1 white mana. Here you need 2 colored Mana, that's a high decrease of quality. The worst part of Oblivion Ring is that the exiled creature comes back when Harmonic Sliver and Qasali Pridemage hits the Battlefield.And this mayor drawback is here the same. The Maelstrom Pulse effect of this Hybrid-O_Ring is also bad, when you and your opponent have a Tarmogoyf you can't play this card. And this case happens more often than the case of an opponent creature + Clone.
It's not as good as O-Ring, but all of these drawbacks are really minor if you play both of these colors. It's extremely unlikely to both players have the same named card even when there are clones running about, especially when this gets around opposing Phantasmal Image just as beautifully as O-Ring does. And if you both have the same card in play, you can either wait for a better target or kill something else, so not the end of the world. Killing bunch of tokens is just as relevant as the whole "oh no, we both have the same guy out and I need to kill something before I lose" - scenarios. Colors are an issue, but I don't see people complaining about any of the other multicolored cards even though they all share this drawback.
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 14-09-2012, 02:23:53 PMGrisly Salvage -- A nice card for Reanimator. But i would prefer Frantic Search.
While it's true that the best looter card ever printed is better than this, it's still potentially fine. I like Strategic Planning in Reanimator and this is almost strict upgrade if you run green. Nothing spectacular as you cannot take the reanimation spell from it which sucks the most. You could theoretically brew something with cards like these and Loam.
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 14-09-2012, 02:23:53 PMSupreme Verdict -- You drasticly overrate this card. Was it really a problem of getting a Wrath of God countered? I never watched one case like this.
It's good because it's a third wrath for UW. Now there is a reasonable chance of drawing one of them before turn four. Being uncounterable matters against blue midrange and fish from time to time, so it's not like it's nothing either.
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 14-09-2012, 02:23:53 PMJarad's Orders -- Also overrated 4 Mana is really too much. 2 Mana for Entomb-a-creature and Eladamri'S Call and all Sorcery. I can't imagine someone choose this card.
Probably just bad, but it's a Reanimation spell (Karmic Guide, Body Double) and Entomb in one card. That synergy should the very least raise some eyebrows.
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 14-09-2012, 02:23:53 PMJace, Architect of Thought -- This a parody of the Jace-concept. Look at the Evolution of Jace: 1) Jace Beleren cost 3 Mana and was decent. 2) Jace, the Mind Sculptor was truly broken for 4 Mana. 3) Jace, Memory Adept cost 5 Mana and was seemly useless. 4) And now we have 4 Mana Jace with a -2 high costed draw ability, a +1 ability which protects a very little from opponent craetures, The ultimate is far away from winning the game. And for that you wait 4 turns with +1 and then on the fived turn you ultimate. This card is the pure horror.
It's not nearly as bad as you make of it. It's still four mana spell that will draw you a card(s) and/or absorb some damage. It's not as powerful as Jace 1.0, but it's better than 3.0.
Treat him simply as value card, just draw bunch of cards out of him and be done with it. Vraska is very similar, just gain some value and forget about the ultimate. This even kills himself with the second activation so you can play Jace, TMS on the next turn if you use Architect of Thought to draw into him. That is very considerate of him.
A lot of cards are debatable, but I really think that you (Goblin Piledriver) underestimate some of them or at least do not give them enough credit. I will mark my answers
bold.
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 14-09-2012, 02:23:53 PM
Extremly Good:
Abrupt Decay -- Best Card in Set. You can shot almost everything for 2 Mana, and it's uncounterable. This Card will even change Legacy and weakens the whole amount of Tarmogoyf-Counterbalance-Decks. This Card will be the most expensive card of the set.
I agree that it is pretty good but will have a lot more impact on the constructed formats, read: Legacy. Highlander decks do have their CMC 4+ threats were this is not going to hit. Instant speed and CMC 2 while and a broard varietly of possible targets are what makes it good, but it will not 'break' the format. It will be a staple in that colour combination though.
Loxodon Smiter -- 3 Mana 4/4 uncounterable and safe from discard-spells. This will replace Woolly Thoctar or Thrun, the Last Troll in most decks.
It's undercosted and comes into play no matter what - very nice, but still 'only' a 4/4 vanilla creature after that. Aggressive decks probably like it, but it's not like it is an autoinclude to creature based strategies in GW.
Chromatic Lantern -- Most Staxx Decks play already Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth because of much cards like Maze of Ith; Mishra's Workshop; The Tabernacle of Pendrel Vale and this card will mainly support this(Urborg) use. It also fixes every color needed. This card is as strong like Coalition Relic.
The problem is that I don't see a lot of decks running Coalition Relic either. It's pretty strong but it's not like it will see play in decks that haven't run artifact mana before.
Good:
Detention Sphere -- You overrate this card. The best part of Oblivion Ring is that it only cost 1 white mana. Here you need 2 colored Mana, that's a high decrease of quality. The worst part of Oblivion Ring is that the exiled creature comes back when Harmonic Sliver and Qasali Pridemage hits the Battlefield.And this mayor drawback is here the same. The Maelstrom Pulse effect of this Hybrid-O_Ring is also bad, when you and your opponent have a Tarmogoyf you can't play this card. And this case happens more often than the case of an opponent creature + Clone.
Its 'weakness' in such a worst case scenario is negligible just like its 'advantage' to kill a token army. As long as this thing basically is a 2nd O-Ring, I will play it if my deck supports the colour combination and needs another universal removal.
Supreme Verdict -- You drasticly overrate this card. Was it really a problem of getting a Wrath of God countered? I never watched one case like this.
It's not about being uncounterable (that's just a nice bonus), it's about being a 3rd / 4th (depending on colours; esper control can run Damnation in addition to Wog + DoJ) CMC 4 mass removal spell for creatures. Redundancy is the keyword for control decks here.
umm, i wildly disagree with some of gobling piledrivers evaluations.
hypersonic dragon: is not playable in highlander. and giving this a "good" and izzet charm a "semi-good" is crazy.
dryad militant: okay-ish, will find a few homes (boros, WW), dont think its good enough for 4c/5c, ability is not relevant on a 2/1 body.
izzet charm: very good card, everydeck with red and blue wants this.
dreadbore: you forgot that card, sorcery speed hurts it (instant speed would be too good obv.) but its still very good.
jace: you will have the urge to delete your "jace is plain horrible"-comment in a few months. if you tested him (you should almost always test walkers before judging) you know he is actually really good (maybe better than beleren). i did test him and i was shocked how good he is.
lyev skyknight: nobody said a word about that card but this card could easily find a home in bant, uwr or others. its very strong actually, detain is no joke, it has evasion and hits hard for a 3 mana creature.
mizzium mortars: this card is very good i believe. it kills relevant creatures in the format with toughness 4 (resto angel, thocta, smiter) and is gamebreaking late game.
Quote from: tonytahiti on 15-09-2012, 12:25:12 AMjace: you will have the urge to delete your "jace is plain horrible"-comment in a few months. if you tested him (you should almost always test walkers before judging) you know he is actually really good (maybe better than beleren). i did test him and i was shocked how good he is.
I was also positively surprised to see how good Jace seemed in practice. The first ability is actually pretty relevant and the draw ability is very powerful. Ultimate sucks, but that should never be a factor when grading planeswalkers. This may actually be the better Planeswalker of the set.
Quote from: tonytahiti on 15-09-2012, 12:25:12 AMlyev skyknight: nobody said a word about that card
:(
I made a horrible pun. That has to count.
Ultimate Price disappointed many, but it's still playable. It's worse than Go for the Throat and Doom Blade, but it's not terrible.
Angel of Serenity is the real deal. Reanimator will want this and if you plan to accelerate into your threats, this is very good. You should note that it returns creatures to their owner's hands, so they cannot just immediately kill your angel and alpha you out the next turn. You also have the option to disentomb something in case she dies, which is very relevant. Best big creature of the set by far.
Quote from: Tiggupiru on 16-09-2012, 09:08:44 AM
Quote from: tonytahiti on 15-09-2012, 12:25:12 AM
Quote from: tonytahiti on 15-09-2012, 12:25:12 AMlyev skyknight: nobody said a word about that card
:(
I made a horrible pun. That has to count.
...as already quoted in my first evaluation ;). But I don´t think he is more than another playable option as there are many good cards in the three mana slot already (Bant). Could be a stable in UW aggro but I have no experience here.
Quote from: Tiggupiru on 16-09-2012, 09:08:44 AM
Angel of Serenity is the real deal. Reanimator will want this and if you plan to accelerate into your threats, this is very good. You should note that it returns creatures to their owner's hands, so they cannot just immediately kill your angel and alpha you out the next turn. You also have the option to disentomb something in case she dies, which is very relevant. Best big creature of the set by far.
I don´t think that accerating into this is a valid plan when you can have Elesh Norn instead. Reanimating is certainly OK but also not the most exiting target ever. But yes, I also think it could see some play in some Reanimator builds (not mine).
Quote from: MMD on 16-09-2012, 10:26:17 AM
Quote from: Tiggupiru on 16-09-2012, 09:08:44 AM
Angel of Serenity is the real deal. Reanimator will want this and if you plan to accelerate into your threats, this is very good. You should note that it returns creatures to their owner's hands, so they cannot just immediately kill your angel and alpha you out the next turn. You also have the option to disentomb something in case she dies, which is very relevant. Best big creature of the set by far.
I don´t think that accerating into this is a valid plan when you can have Elesh Norn instead. Reanimating is certainly OK but also not the most exiting target ever. But yes, I also think it could see some play in some Reanimator builds (not mine).
And how many Elesh Norns you plan to play in this highlander format? It's not as good, but it's very close and there are situation where Angel of Serenity is just better. I like her a lot right now.
Better ask me how many seven mana creatures I would like to have in my deck if my plan is to play fair an ramp into that - one.
Quote from: MMD on 16-09-2012, 02:49:46 PM
Better ask me how many seven mana creatures I would like to have in my deck if my plan is to play fair an ramp into that - one.
If you play cards like Grim Monolith and Thran Dynamo, you can easily get away with two, three being the okay if you can't find enough good six mana alternatives.
deathrite shaman.
thats an highlander staple right there. 4c/5c, bug aggro control.
thats a real card if i have ever seen one.
Yes, looks like a staple.
Rest in Peace - Looks like they are getting near to the "ultimate graveyard hate". Not very HLish but at least another all format SB staple.
More powercreep on legs, ultimate GY hate, 3 mana counters, junky combo engines: YAY! :'(
Here my review of most of the highlander-relevant cards in a 5 point scale:
Abrupt Decay 5,0/5
The best card in set. It's more than a glorified Smother, it kills nearly every nonland permanent with only 2 mana.
Deathrite Shaman 4,6/5
Produces colored Mana, shot lifeloss to an opponent like a Grim Lavamancer, and removes Creatures for 2 life. It's ultraflexible and only cost 1 Mana. It nearly seems overpowered.
Loxodon Smiter 4,3/5
This creature is not a vanilla creature since it has 2 abilitys, until it is on the Battlefiled, then it has no relevant abilitys. 4/4 for 3 mana is good enough for this meta.
Mizzium Mortars 4,2/5
This is a good spot removal like Flame Slash in early game and mass removal in late game.
Cyclonic Rift 4,0/5
I think it's a liitle less effective then Mizzium Mortar because it doesn't kill but it's Overload cost is easier to cast for multicolored decks.
Dreadbore 3,9/5
Hard creature/planeswalker remvoal for 2 mana with no restrictions is always welcomed
Izzet Charm 3,8/5
3 good options: Shock; Spell Pierce; Careful Study.
Dryad Militant 3,7/5
In aggresive decks Savannah Lions/Jungle Lion and so on where omnipresent, this creature is easier to cast and removes a few cards in grave
Rakdos Crackler 3,7/5
2/2 for one mana,this sounds much better than Jackal Pup and will be often seen in highlander
Detention Sphere 3,5/5
As good as an Oblivion Ring but a little expensiver.
Dreg Mangler 3,4/5
Simplyier to cast Boggart-Ram-Gang with an afterlife.
Chromatic Lantern 3,1/5
Enables Tabernacle and such cards and fixes the mana perfect.The only better artifactmana for 3 is Coalition Relic.
Supreme Verdict 3,1/5
Sounds acceptable. Another day of Judgement with a plus against aggrocontrol decks.
Selesnya Charm 3,0/5
Creature pump, 2/2-Vigilance , or removing big creatures. This card offers the right for every situation
Ash Zealot 3,0/5
2/2 haste and first strike is ideal for a creature in a RDW.
Precinct Captain 3,0/5
2/2 first strike and brings additional creatures. Ideal for White Weenie
Vraska the Unseen 2,9/5
Flexible but expensive. We will have to wait and see.
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius 2,8/5
Shots flexible on creatures, players and draws cards, but will suffer on being legendary.
Jace, Architect of Thought 2,7/5
Tabris said this Jace would replace Fact or Fiction in his decks. But for bringing a complete Fact or Fiction you need to activate it twice and removing 4 counters. I think this card is overated, it works best against creatures with 2 or 1 power(corrected), and it fails against bigger creatures.
Gatecreeper Vine 2,6/5
This creature can be best compared to Sylvan Ranger(not Sylvan Messenger, like Tabris said on Youtube). It function as well as the Ranger, but the 1/1 Ranger is better in creature combat.
Judge's Familiar 2,6/5
The best Suntail Hawk you can imagine
Rest in Peace 2,5/5
Combopart with Helm of Obidience or the ultimate grave hate, which cycles itself(corrected).
Lotleh Troll 2,4/5
This card is overrated, you will never want to discard creatures, if you are not playing Reanimator.
Worldspine Wurm 2,3/5
Ideal for 2 decks: Hypergenesis and Mono-G-Ramp. The Wurm will not replace Primeval Titan in decks with Natural Order. The Titan is good enough and could be cast more likely than the Wurm.
Nivmagus Elemental 2,2/5
It would be perfect with 2/1, but as a 1/2 you really need to exile at least one spell early to deal a good amount if damage.
Goblin Electromancer 2,1/5
It's not a good Helm of Awakening. Maybe it's a good Midrange Creature.
Lyvev Skynight 2,1/5
For this mana you already have Serendib Efreet,Aven Mindcensor and Aven Mimeomancer. This creature will not replace them.
Underworld Connections 2,0/5
A little bit worse than Phyrexian Arena.
Rakdos Charm 1,9/5
This charm is quite interesting. Tormod's Crypt, Shatter and Stronghold Discipline.
Hypersonic Dragon 1,8/5
I really thought he would give flashback. Now only 4/4 Haste, Flying is remaining. There are better creatures for 5 mana.
Guttersnipe 1,7/5
This card is not a TPS card. It's not TPS style to play a creature before going into combo. This card is good in spell-rich decks, like UR-Counterburn.
Azorius Charm 1,2/5
Lifelink, Cycling and Condem Time Ebb. This ability's are not good enough.
Deadbridge Goliath 1,2/5
There are already enough 5/5 creatures for 4 Mana. Scavenge for six mana sounds too much.
Slitherhead 1,1/5
Even in the Pre-Release I didn't played this card. 1/1 for one mana is not enough and one +1/1 counter is also not enough for a good card.
Golgari Charm 1,1/5
This charm is the worst of all 5. Nausea, Wrap in Vigor and enchantment destruction sounds unplayable.
How does Rest in Peace cycle? Deathrite Shaman requires you to load up on fetchlands, which makes it slightly unreliable mana elf with an upside. How is Niv-Mizzet's legendary status a problem? I can only think of Karakas and that doesn't turn up that often. You probably meant that Jace works well against creatures with low power, no toughness.
How do you feel about Gutternipe in burn/RDW?
Oh, Rest in Peace doesn't cycle itself(thought it does so)!(again i read a card wrong)
Being a legendary creature is a big problem, there are enough Karakas in Highlander. Expedition Map, Knight of the Reliquary, Crop Rotation, Sylvan Scrying (even Demonic Tutor) leads to Karakas. So for a 6 Mana creature being legendary is a bigger problem than for a one mana legendary Isamaru.
Guttersnipe could be played in RDW or Burn but I don't know if it is really durable to shot enough damage.
Quote from: GoblinPiledriver on 05-10-2012, 08:44:25 PM
Abrupt Decay 5,0/5
The best card in set. It's more than a glorified Smother, it kills nearly every nonland permanent with only 2 mana.
Too bad every nonland permanent doesn't include: Titans, Wurmcoil, Sower of Temptation, Baneslayer, Restoration Angel, FTK, or Planeswalkers. As in, pretty much all those things you actually lose to.
It's still good, and certainly not a bad card, but the fact that Smother hasn't seen play in years should tell you that this isn't a five out of five deal. You probably play it in most Green-Black decks, but it's not even an auto-inclusion in decks that can support the mana. For example, Pattern doesn't want this. They want flexibility and this doesn't provide it.
You still underrate the
Jace. It's a very good card. Imagine a very common scenario: Control plays couple of removals/counters and drops this on turn four against two 2/2's. Control uses +1 ability and aggro attacks it down to three loyalty. On the next turn you have an option to dig for a sweeper and should you find it, you still have a planeswalker for them to worry about. Another +1 will give you plenty of time. If you have your own creatures, the +1 is even stronger since you can just eat their 2/2's with you Trinket Mages if they would attack.
Jace is actually a perfect replacement for Fact or Fiction (which is not even a very good card right now), since it also pretty much wins against an empty board: The second ability is very powerful. It's also way better than FoF if you are behind.
You also underrate
Azorius Charm. Time Ebb for two mana is powerful tempo gain in early game and it also cycles if needed. Lifelink I haven't used yet, but I could see that being nice way to get off the burn range in the late game. I have been impressed by this card.
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMDeathrite Shaman requires you to load up on fetchlands, which makes it slightly unreliable mana elf with an upside.
You do realize it eats from each graveyard right? So it's a pretty reliable mana elf, graveyard hater and win condition during board stalls. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMHow do you feel about Gutternipe in burn/RDW?
It sometimes feels too slow even for limited play. I don't like it.
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMHow is Niv-Mizzet's legendary status a problem? I can only think of Karakas and that doesn't turn up that often.
Phantasmal Image and Phyrexian Metamorph.
@random cards:Gatecreeper Vine - I actually like this guy in Pattern. A NOable (not so noble, though) body that fixes, shuffles and generates mild CA.
Centaur Healer - Another guy to the Pattern. This is a much needed upgrade to Loxodon Hierarch, which I was forced to play from time to time. Nice to see that is in the past. Better than any of the baloths as well, provided the mana isn't an issue. Obviously not better than Finks, but Finks is pretty retarded.
Martial Law - Was too slow. I figured it might be, but still somewhat sad to see a card not good enough. The fact that every creature has a window to activate their abilities before you reissue the detainment was the last nail to the coffin.
Rest in Peace - Also comboes with Energy Field. They unbanned Enlightened? I smell a deck brewing.
Mana Bloom - Gets all kinds of bad rep, but all I see a repeated card draw in Enchantress. Too cute? Probably. Am I going to try anyway? You betcha.
Armada Wurm - Six mana 10/10 Trample has to be good somewhere. Even when there are all those Titans roaming the lands. I can see this being better than Sun Titan in some decks.
Quote from: Tiggupiru on 05-10-2012, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMDeathrite Shaman requires you to load up on fetchlands, which makes it slightly unreliable mana elf with an upside.
You do realize it eats from each graveyard right? So it's a pretty reliable mana elf, graveyard hater and win condition during board stalls. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
I have been wrong with my evaluations before (most notably Mental Misstep), so I have to try it out.
Quote
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMHow do you feel about Gutternipe in burn/RDW?
It sometimes feels too slow even for limited play. I don't like it.
I thought so, but wanted an opinion from someone who actually played with the card.
Quote
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMHow is Niv-Mizzet's legendary status a problem? I can only think of Karakas and that doesn't turn up that often.
Phantasmal Image and Phyrexian Metamorph.
Right, these two are actually relevant. I really get to play some cards for a change if I forget essentials like that.
just to give you something to think about (aka next level all jace haters): jace IS fact or faction.
ok of course not literally but look at it this way:
what is fact or fiction, its most likely a 3 and a 2 card pile.
so when jace does the mini fact (a 2 and a 1 card pile) you get either 2 cards + jace in play(3 cards) or 1 card + jace in play (2 cards). it is a sorcery fact or fiction cause JACE IS IN PLAY AND IS A CARD!
think about it. its true. good night, all.
Quote from: Nastaboi on 06-10-2012, 12:37:12 AM
Quote from: Tiggupiru on 05-10-2012, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMDeathrite Shaman requires you to load up on fetchlands, which makes it slightly unreliable mana elf with an upside.
You do realize it eats from each graveyard right? So it's a pretty reliable mana elf, graveyard hater and win condition during board stalls. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
I have been wrong with my evaluations before (most notably Mental Misstep), so I have to try it out.
I am probably overrating it a little bit, but we shall see. Initial testing has been very promising, though.
QuoteQuote
Quote from: Nastaboi on 05-10-2012, 09:00:18 PMHow do you feel about Gutternipe in burn/RDW?
It sometimes feels too slow even for limited play. I don't like it.
I thought so, but wanted an opinion from someone who actually played with the card.
Fair enough. I do have some experience from it league play, which is closer to block constructed than limited and if it's something I rather not play out my hand most of time there (in an aggressive deck), it does not bode well for highlander. My reasoning most of the time is the following: I need to use this burn spell right now to get some damage through with the guys I have in play and oozing a relatively small amount of value isn't often enough. If the board is empty, I rather play just a bigger guy. Major difference between that format and HL burn is that burn is actually lot cheaper here, Annihilating Fire sometimes only cost like one mana in this format!
But yeah, for Guttersnipe to be better than straight four to the face, you need to cast three spells while it's in play or two spells and get one hit in with it. I don't see that happening often enough.
I am fine if somebody proves me wrong, though.
Hey everyone,
so many set-reviews and still people underrate cards like the new Jace completely :D
I find it very intriguing to again see, that great playskill and the skill to evaluate cards quickly, seem to be
two skillsets that don't necessarily correlate, especially regarding cards that aren't so obvious.
I'll just post my contribution as a Top 10 of RTR-cards, which i think will have the most impact in tier one highlander-decks.
My Top 10, no order:
Jace, Architect of Thought: I believe every deck running blue with four-drops will eventually play this card.
Supreme Verdict: This card is a U/W-Control staple if i've ever seen one.
Deathrite Shaman: Any deck with fetch-lands and access to green is probably going to have to play this, as it beats rector and does "a few" more things.
Loxodon Smiter: G/W-Aggro staple, likely better than Woolly Thoctar.
Azorius Charm: Probably another U/W-Control staple, who cares about the lifelink thing?! Very good card!
Abrupt Decay: Uncounterable everything-removal. Will probably see less play than Deathrite Shaman though.
Izzet Charm: Not many decks can support it mana-whise, but those who can, will.
Ash Zealot: RDW will run this.
Detention Sphere: Who doesn't play Oblivion Ring – with two-for-one-potential?!
Dreadbore: Solid removal. It's R/B...but still.
i scrolled through the list of goblinpildedrivers evaluation, saw jace at 2,7 and azorius charm at 1,3 (and gatecreeper vine at 2,6!) and then stopped reading :)
I laughed about the diffuse scale with 100! different strength evaluations. 5 Are probably enough to evaluate for a single format. But 2,1/5. Really? Why isnt it 2,2 or 2,0 then? This is just making up numbers for the heck of it.
1) unplayable
2) honorable mentions
3) roleplayer in certain deck
4) strong
5) absolute staple
I played with a few cards a bit, so my evaluation:
New Jace is obv. not as good as JtMS, but still very good and should replace FoF like already mentioned. What makes it so good is that it creates board presence and if empty you get to see 6 new cards which is huge. the +1 ability fits especially well for aggro-control.
Cyclonic Rift is a nice tool for RUG ramp.
Deathrite shaman is the bees knees. That guy is really good. so you basically have a slightly unreliable manadork who can: disrupt the GY, gain life and can threaten to kill a player over time. On top of it it survives a ping. Powerlevel is kind of absurd imho.
I am still very disappointed about new Jace. Its especially because of his first ability... As blue player I will still prefer Tamyio.