Messages

A.

Definitely.

And both of my HL-playing sons agree with me.

Although the arguments advanced in favor of the other options are mostly logical, I point out the following:

1. The current mulligan rule has been a defining characteristic of the game, and removing it will fundamentally change its identity.
2. Everybody who builds a deck understands the pros/cons of the mulligan, and can therefore choose and design his deck accordingly. In other words, the playing field is already level. (Example: if I am building a slow deck, and I understand that an aggro, or perhaps combo, deck might be too fast against me, I can choose to (a) try a different archetype, OR (b) select more cards that will keep me in the game until my deck starts to click.)

[Artifact]

More dusting off. (cough, cough...)

With the advent of a bunch of new/recent cards, plus relevant mechanics in Green (Evolve, Bloodrush), time to look at this fresh.

Here's what I put together yesterday:

Artifact: 4

1 Bonesplitter
1 Grafted Wargear
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Creature: 47

1 Ambush Viper
1 Basking Rootwalla
1 Beastbreaker of Bala Ged
1 Boggart Ram-Gang
1 Briarhorn
1 Brushstrider
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Drove of Elves
1 Dryad Militant
1 Dryad Sophisticate
1 Experiment One
1 Garruk's Companion
1 Great Sable Stag
1 Groundbreaker
1 Hungry Spriggan
1 Jungle Lion
1 Killer Bees
1 Leatherback Baloth
1 Mirri, Cat Warrior
1 Mtenda Lion
1 Nettle Sentinel
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Pouncing Jaguar
1 Predator Ooze
1 Rogue Elephant
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scryb Sprites
1 Scythe Tiger
1 Silhana Ledgewalker
1 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
1 Skinshifter
1 Skyshroud Elite
1 Skyshroud Ridgeback
1 Slaughterhorn
1 Slitherhead
1 Spire Tracer
1 Strangleroot Geist
1 Talara's Battalion
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Tattermunge Maniac
1 Treetop Scout
1 Twinblade Slasher
1 Uktabi Drake
1 Wasteland Viper
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
1 Young Wolf

Enchantment: 3

1 Gaea's Anthem
1 Moldervine Cloak
1 Rancor

Instant: 11

1 Beast Within
1 Bounty of the Hunt
1 Ferocious Charge
1 Giant Growth
1 Krosan Grip
1 Might of Oaks
1 Might of Old Krosa
1 Naturalize
1 Stonewood Invocation
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Wildsize

Land: 32

25 Forest
1 Heart of Yavimaya
1 Pendelhaven
1 Slippery Karst
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Treetop Village
1 Wasteland
1 Yavimaya Hollow

Planeswalker: 1

1 Garruk Wildspeaker

Sorcery: 2

1 Call of the Herd
1 Harmonize

I have no doubt there are some cards here that will raise an eyebrow or two...  ... As always, feedback is great!

A valuable source of information is www.mtgpulse.com.

Browse the Highlander section for recent and not so recent lists.

Thanks!

Your deck has the numbers about right. 40 creatures is a good ratio. With so many cheap cards you might want to go down on lands (about 32-33 seems like a good place to start).

Yep; I was thinking of that as I was putting it together but I am always terrified of mana screw. 

Some card choices seem odd.

Like...?

Thanks for your input!

[Artifact]

So, a few years ago I tried my hand at a 3-color Zoo deck, but I kind of missed the mark by having too many high-cc creatures. So this past weekend I tried again, and here's what I have so far:

Artifact: 3

1 AEther Vial
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Winter Orb

Creature: 40
1 Accorder Paladin
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Bloodhall Ooze
1 Boggart Ram-Gang
1 Changeling Berserker
1 Cloistered Youth
1 Dryad Militant
1 Elite Vanguard
1 Experiment One
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Goblin Guide
1 Horned Kavu
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Jackal Pup
1 Jungle Lion
1 Kird Ape
1 Loam Lion
1 Memnite
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Porcelain Legionnaire
1 Pouncing Jaguar
1 Reckless Waif
1 Rumbling Slum
1 Savannah Lions
1 Serra Avenger
1 Skinshifter
1 Skyshroud Elite
1 Sparkcaster
1 Stormblood Berserker
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Tattermunge Maniac
1 Uktabi Drake
1 Watchwolf
1 Wild Leotau
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Wojek Halberdiers
1 Woolly Thoctar
1 Advent of the Wurm (instant, makes 5/5 dude)
1 Call of the Conclave (sorcery, makes 3/3 dude)

Enchantment: 3

1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Mass Hysteria
1 Rancor

Instant: 15

1 Beast Within
1 Boros Charm
1 Burst Lightning
1 Congregation at Dawn
1 Ghostway
1 Krosan Grip
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Lightning Helix
1 Magma Jet
1 Naya Charm
1 Path to Exile
1 Ready // Willing
1 Selesnya Charm
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Wear // Tear

Planeswalker: 2

1 Ajani Goldmane
1 Garruk Wildspeaker

Sorcery: 2

1 Browbeat
1 Harmonize

Land: 35

1 Arid Mesa
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
5 Forest
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Krosan Verge
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Mountain
1 Naya Panorama
4 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Rith's Grove
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Temple Garden
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Treetop Village
1 Wasteland
1 Wooded Bastion

I haven't seen any other Zoo lists, but I know they've been kicking around for a while. So, if any has any suggestions, or links to "proven" decks, would love to see them... thanks!

[Artifact: 26]

Based on the lack of input here, I am assuming that there is little interest in this. Having said that, however, my eldest son (again, he is the family MtG guru) has grudgingly conceded that this deck "is actually not too bad." High praise from him 

Happy to hear suggestions, answer questions, etc.

Current build:

Artifact: 26
1 Azorius Signet
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Coalition Relic
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Crystal Ball
1 Dimir Signet
1 Druidic Satchel
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Fieldmist Borderpost
1 Lotus Bloom
1 Marble Diamond
1 Mind Stone
1 Mistvein Borderpost
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sky Diamond
1 Staff of Domination
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Wayfarer's Bauble

Creature: 26
1 Archaeomancer
1 Augury Owl
1 Auramancer
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Court Hussar
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Exalted Angel
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Hanna, Ship's Navigator
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Magus of the Future
1 Magus of the Moat
1 Platinum Angel
1 Plumeveil
1 Sen Triplets
1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
1 Shriekmaw
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Trinket Mage
1 Wall of Denial
1 Windborn Muse

Enchantment: 12
1 Battle of Wits
1 Control Magic
1 Debtors' Knell
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Land Tax
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Propaganda
1 Rhystic Study
1 Teferi's Moat
1 Telepathy
1 Treachery

Instant: 56
1 Agony Warp
1 Argivian Find
1 Brainstorm
1 Cancel
1 Clutch of the Undercity
1 Condemn
1 Condescend
1 Counterspell
1 Countersquall
1 Cryptic Command
1 Daze
1 Deprive
1 Disenchant
1 Dismiss
1 Dispel
1 Dissipate
1 Dizzy Spell
1 Doom Blade
1 Dream Fracture
1 Dromar's Charm
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Esper Charm
1 Evasive Action
1 Exclude
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Forbid
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Force of Will
1 Ghastly Demise
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hinder
1 Impulse
1 Into the Roil
1 Intuition
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Miscalculation
1 Mortify
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Negate
1 Pact of Negation
1 Path to Exile
1 Perplex
1 Power Sink
1 Psychic Strike
1 Put Away
1 Remand
1 Shred Memory
1 Smother
1 Spell Snare
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Syncopate
1 Tainted Pact
1 Thirst for Knowledge

Land: 84
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Ancient Den
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Bad River
1 Barren Moor
1 Bayou
1 Boreal Shelf
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Coastal Tower
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Dromar's Cavern
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Dust Bowl
1 Esper Panorama
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Fetid Heath
1 Flood Plain
1 Frost Marsh
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Grasslands
1 Halimar Depths
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
1 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Krosan Verge
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Mutavault
1 Mystic Gate
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Orzhov Guildgate
3 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Reflecting Pool
1 River of Tears
1 Rocky Tar Pit
1 Salt Marsh
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Sejiri Refuge
1 Skycloud Expanse
3 Snow-Covered Island
3 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Sunken Ruins
4 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Terminal Moraine
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tolaria West
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground River
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Urza's Factory
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Vesuva
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Wasteland
1 Watery Grave

Planeswalker: 5
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana Vess

Sorcery: 41
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Brainspoil
1 Bribery
1 Compulsive Research
1 Concentrate
1 Damnation
1 Day of Judgment
1 Decree of Pain
1 Deep Analysis
1 Demonic Collusion
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Duress
1 Enduring Ideal
1 Foresee
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Infest
1 Innocent Blood
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Invincible Hymn
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind Shatter
1 Mind Spring
1 Mystic Speculation
1 Night's Whisper
1 Ponder
1 Portent
1 Preordain
1 Probe
1 Rhystic Tutor
1 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
1 Thoughtseize
1 Tidings
1 Vindicate
1 Wrath of God

This distressing to me... My sons and I have basically abandoned MWS, even though we still believe that it is the best deck-building utility available (at least that we've seen). But one son has moved entirely to a Mac platform, and the other son and I can't seem to get the recent versions of MWS to work in a stable manner. If Cockatrice may have future problems... 

Cyclonic Rift > Disperse
also a onesided sweeper possibility.

Would love to use the Rift... but none in my collection...

Phyrexian Metamorph and phantasmal image are must includes.
They are both on the curve, handle mean Legends (cant see this deck handle thrun for example) and if there's no target on the other side, pick one of yours

Yeah, these are two I keep going back and forth on. Think I'll try them.

Looter il-Kor gives you Cardquality
Spiketail Hatchling strong as well.

Looked at the Looter; also on the fence here. Didn't consider the Hatchling; good call. Which cards would you swap out for them?

Sword of Feast and Famine should find a spot in your deck, because you can either decide to play more creatures or to have a counterspell. With the sword you can do both.
Sword of Fire and Ice is just broken. It handles creatures with toughness 2 or less, else shoots in the face and it draws you a card, something you really need.

Excellent thinking on the SFF. I'd already looked SFI, as it is just a bit more cumbersome to play and equip than I really want for this deck. (Same would be true for the other sword.) Hmm...

Maybe you should think about a more merfolk or faerie themed engine. Doesn't have to be a theme deck, but you could think of some good synergies.

I am open to suggestion!

OK - and thanks for the quick response!

So I have reviewed this thread, because my oldest son (the real MtG guru in this family) is putting together a "silly" HL deck and wants to include a couple from these unique Commander decks. Anyway, the upshot of the thread was not quite clear to me.

Are those cards which exist only in the WotC Commander decks legal for use in HL (as played on this website) decks?

Thanks for the input... some good suggestions there. Based on your, Vazdru's, and my son's (he was with us this weekend and helped me playtest the deck) recommendations, changes since the initial listing:

Faerie Conclave --> Mutavault
Halimar Depths ---> Island
Lonely Sandbar ---> Memory Lapse
Remote Isle  -----> Miscalculation
Oblivion Stone ---> Devastation Tide
Cancel   ---------> Daze
Cloud Elemental---> Deep-Sea Kraken
Turn Aside    ----> Psionic Blast
Angel's Tomb  ----> Unstable Mutation

On the right track; the current deck version held its own well against some of his better decks. Will continue tweaking it as playtesting opportunities arise.

When Gatecrash comes out, 2 cards I will almost certainly put in are Cloudfin Raptor and Nightveil Spector; will also consider Hybridation Rapide (Quick Hybridization?)

Also considering Thwart.

More thoughts?

So far I'm partly convinced; I have removed the 2 cycling lands and added Memory Lapse and Miscalculation.

Will probably hold off on more changes (w/possible exception of Oblivion Stone) until more serious testing can be done.

Thanks for the comments!!! If there are more, let's hear 'em.

i would decrease the land count to 30 and add mutavault (cut lonely sandbar) as you play eg spellstutter sprite and coralhelm commander

May try 32 lands (compromise between your suggestion and the current count). Thought of Mutavault already; perhaps it instead of Mishra's factory? I hate to have too many mana sources that are non-blue, and I liked the MF as it can be a 3/3 blocker in most cases.

daze > forbid
memory lapse > cancel
spell snare > stoic rebuttal

Considered all these; was thinking that hard counters all around (exception is Remand) might be best, and my experiences with Daze and Spell Snare have been unimpressive. Memory Lapse is actually kind of like an inverse Remand, though...

missing:

phantasmal image
phyrexian metamorph

Considered these also; they seem too situational to me.

oblivion stone seems misplaced

Inclined to agree esp. after initial testing... but I hate to have no board sweepers at all. Suggestions (Evacuation, Wash Out, Nevinyrral's Disk, other)?

Yep; still kicking out here...

This deck idea suggested itself to me while looking at some blue rare cards... The idea is to put out efficient and evasive (flying, shadow, unblockable) creatures and have enough mana to counter and/or bounce threats.

Here's the first draft:

Creatures (40)

1 Spiketail Drakeling
1 Errant Ephemeron
1 Augury Owl
1 Wind Zendikon (enchantment; makes creature)
1 Skaab Ruinator
1 Stitched Drake
1 Phantom Warrior
1 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Latch Seeker
1 Vexing Sphinx
1 Zephyr Sprite
1 Spire Golem
1 Briarberry Cohort
1 Riftwing Cloudskate
1 Horizon Drake
1 Jace's Phantasm
1 Cloudskate
1 Delver of Secrets
1 Inkfathom Infiltrator
1 Dewdrop Spy
1 Judge's Familiar
1 Faerie Impostor
1 Surveilling Sprite
1 Infiltrator il-Kor
1 Scrapskin Drake
1 Coralhelm Commander
1 Stormbound Geist
1 Hovermyr
1 Wasp Lancer
1 Invisible Stalker
1 Wormfang Drake
1 Flying Men
1 Illusionary Servant
1 Kathari Screecher
1 Sprite Noble
1 Serendib Efreet
1 Cloud Elemental
1 Spindrift Drake
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Angel's Tomb (artifact but becomes creature)

Counterspells (17)

1 Faerie Trickery
1 Familiar's Ruse
1 Turn Aside
1 Dispel
1 Counterspell
1 Negate
1 Deprive
1 Mana Leak
1 Hinder
1 Remand
1 Stoic Rebuttal
1 Force of Will
1 Cancel
1 Forbid
1 Dream Fracture
1 Dissipate
1 Cryptic Command

Bounce (4)

1 Disperse
1 Boomerang
1 Into the Roil
1 Echoing Truth

Other (5)

1 Bonesplitter
1 Grafted Wargear
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Shuko
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands (34)

28 Island
1 Remote Isle
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Halimar Depths
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Wasteland

A few comments...

1. I considered White as an additional color as of course there are good white fliers BUT I decided to keep it mono blue to strengthen the control parts of the deck.

2. Not sure about the mana balance... On the one hand control likes abundant mana sources; on the other aggro likes to keep it lean. Initial testing suggests that 34 (current land complement) may be a good balance.

3. I am unsure about 40 as a good number of creatures, BUT in other decks with some similar characteristics I have too often found myself unable to keep a creature or two in hand. In other words, I want to maximize odds of drawing/having creatures available to cast.

4. I have purposely left out some aspects that would normally be auto-includes in Blue decks (like Jace, card draw, etc.) I did this in consideration of (3) above as well as ensuring a reasonable abundance of counterspells.

4. In selecting spells that are creatures (or create creatures, like the Zendikon), I limited myself to a maximum casting cost of 3.

Any input is most welcome.

(wiping the dust off...)

OK; so I went to my local M13 Prerelease, and was a bit disappointed to have as one of the Rares among my six packs... Battle of Wits.

Not very useful for Sealed Deck, but it DID remind me of this thread here, so I decided to take a closer look.

Since it's been OVER 3 years since there has been any discussion here, clearly some cards have come out that might help this deck. Here are some suggestions that I wouldn't mind any feedback on...

+ Gem of Becoming (M13)
+ Norn's Annex (New Phyr.)
+ Leyline of Anticipation (M11)
+ Mind Shatter (since Mind Twist has been banned)
+ Deprive (Rise of Eld.)
+ Increasing Ambition (Dark Ascen.)
+ Forbidden Alchemy (Innis.)
+ Preordain (M11)
+ Druidic Satchel (M12)
+ Crystal Ball (M11)
+ Jace, Memory Adept
+ Jace, Mind Sculptor
+ Go for the Throat (Mirr. Bes., instead of, or in add. to, Terror)
+ Mnemonic Wall (Rise of Eld.)
+ Archaeomancer (M13)
+ Augury Owl (M11)
+(appropriate Worldwake dual/manlands)
+ (appropriate Scars of Mirr. dual lands)
+ Evolving Wilds
+ Tectonic Edge (Worldwake)
+ Sejiri Refuge (Zen.)
+ Jwar Isle Refuge (Zen.)

Any others that I may be missing?

"Older" cards that could also work:

+ Put Away (Shadow.)... can get BoW back from GY, albeit inefficiently, if need be
+ Decree of Pain (Scourge)... sweeper plus draw
+ Ancient Den... poss. target for Trinket Mage
+ Vault of Whispers... same
+ Terminal Morraine
+ Mutavault
+ Dromar's Cavern
+ Akroma's Vengeance... sweeper or cycling

(EDIT) My son also suggested Windborne Muse instead of or in add. to Norn's Annex

Any and all feedback is welcome!!

Recent tweaks to this...

+Phyrexian Crusader -Core Prowler
+Trailblazer's Boots(!!) -Swiftboot Boots
+Bonesplitter -Forest

Playtesting so far has suggested that the sweepers continue to be useful so I am hesitant to remove any. Dynamics also suggest that the deck often wins by sudden big pumps of a single creature that has evasion of some kind, so keeping the board, not necessarily clear but at least relatively uncluttered, seems to be the best approach.

I still really like Invigorate but I haven't added it yet; the Scry 2 on Ferocious Charge is very useful. Also, still considering Chainer's Edict over Diabolic Edict (even thought Vhati's demise still brings a smile to my lips) since it can be used a 2nd time if need be.

The tweaking continues...