Messages

[DOs]

Let me check in here after reading your posts but primarly in response to the Watch List Announcement from February 1st.
For what it is worth some things about my person in regards of my MtG & Highlander Experience:
-   I play Highlander since around 2008/2009 with a big break around family planning between 2014-2018.
-   I would call myself a competitive player even if I have not been a winner in something bigger than a FNM or Prerelease.

So since this is my hobby and I think Highlander ist he best format that happened to Magic I am happy to share my thoughts and impression as a member of the community. In my experience it is hard to merge different opinions into a widley accepted solution. Even if the silent majority agrees and accepts the decisions made by the HL-Council. In this case just a reminder that loudness does not necessary mean someone is right. Besides that there is no objectivity possible. Even if you take every voice or argument into account there will always be someone making noise not liking what you you do...

Enough Introduction – lets get to the points:
Tutors in Highlander

• Are necessary and vital part of  the format. Problematic Tutor-cards should be cut off the format precisely (f.e. Vampiric, Mystical, Natural Order, SotF, etc.)

Combo Decks

• This is a though one. Combo is a part of MtGs strategic roots. You better align with WotC Game Design or leave Magic as a game.
  In connection to the Tutor-topic you have to decide between Tutor vs problematic card everytime on its own.
  In case: Thassas Oracle & Tainted Pact = Wait a little longer for the meta to adapt. If there is action needed (I don't see it urgent for now): My Vote goes to Ban Tainted Pact

Unbanning Cards on Time

• Open the gates :-) Let the community run wild in a controlled environment.
  Some cards are on the Banned list for their power level and some are there for unfun and non interactive behavior.
  So let me run crazy on this in a considerabel way:

DOs

Birthing Pod: give it a try as 3 mana creature only tutor which will of course spread some combo around creatures which is always the most interaction about. It will also strengthen Midrange. This card will not be played in Tempo Decks and Thassa or Hermit Druid Decks do not have the most interest in this card respectively have to be build totally different. (gives players more to think about #1)

Gifts Ungiven: Intuition 2.0 ... 4cmc instant that wins you the game, but academy is gone. Not for tempo, mostly Combo, some Control and Midrange. Give it a try. (gives players more to think about #2)

Jitte: It is unfun to play against/with (cause strategic decisions are minimal). Will be played a lot. On the other hand this card is not making things worse or better where it is (Combo+Control vs Tempo+Midrange). Especially Midrange with SFM will profit from this one. (nothing strategic, just power #1)

TNN: Unfun card, U-based Tempo/Midrange will profit. Just get it back in. (nothing strategic, just power #2)

DONT make Skullclamp playable, cause this is less investment (cmc-wise) and to much ressource-advantage in one card.

Thank you for your input and overview.

Allow me for some continuing considerations:

1. Some Uxx-Archetypes are not properly classified in my opinion, f.e. Bant is GWu or Sultai is GBU. Blue is more a colour of support for these decks. The strong parts are Green respectively equally divided colors.

2. Bant performed strong in the last Continental Cup 2019. How come you list it as Tier 3? Your arguments are not thouroughly convincing.

3. Three-Colour-Piles are not necessary Happy Place. I would make the argument that the mana base is just slightly worse for Four-Colour-Decks against Mana-Denial-Strategies (Blood Moon, Back to Basics) and just works out fine to tweak in a couple more power in decline of mana base consistency. Especially 4-Colour Blood or 4-Colour-Tempo-decks are at the top at the format in my opinion (Lets say in your categories Tier 1 till Tier 1.5).

4. If this is just a long writing as argument against/for bannings, I think this is not completely thought through.
- Birthing Pod would start a new breed of Combo-Decks which start off to dominate the format.
- Jitte and Skullclamp are worth to keep on the watchlist (see Official Announcements). I would rather prefer Skullclamp over Jitte cause it is just an overwhelming force in every creature based deck. On the other side Skullclamp has more Combo-potential to it...
- I agree that Combo has to be watched more closely. But if you have played a Combo-Deck once there are mostly small windows for you to win and the hate is already out there (especially U and B). There I do not think Demonic Tutor, Dig through time or Treasure Cruise or Tainted Pact are the problem. If you throw these cards out of the format you kill combo decks once and for all. Besided you are trimming Midrange and Tempo decks in their tool kit. Fun Fact: Just take the next best Tutor from the list of MTG-card history.  

Highlander startet as a format where you could play almost any card from magic history. If there are more bans than necessary the format would contradicts its vision.

I think the better approach is to think about specific combos and ban cards that enable the combo itself (f.e. Underworld Breach, Tolarian Academy, etc.). And still the only reason to ban cards if you can not interact with the possibly banned card/combo.


To sum it up for me: Thanks for the read but better leave banning considerations out.

Edit
5. I disagree on your assumptions about deckbuilding ("if you play Opt, play also Sleight of Hand - If you play Daze, play also force etc."). This is not generally true! Yes sometimes you want redundant effects from cards, but sometimes you want to have more variance in your deck. For example in some sorta 60 card deck you play 4 llanowar elves and could decide to play +2 1mana accelerator elves/humans/birds. Or you can decide to fill the last 2 spots in your deck with 2 effects of the same kind or you with a 1-1 split and take your chances. All I want to say is, that more of the same is not always the right decision. Your example with Counterspells is also limping. Most of the tempo decks want to apply pressure on the opponent and try to stay on top because of interaction (counter). There is no threat (Creature) if you fill your deck with lots of counters (which is something Control Decks would tend to do).

Sorry but please be more precise - thank you.

...

Complex board- and play situations are a natural consequence of this balance, and should typically favour the players who build their decks more cohesive, thus showing up better prepared, and/or come up with the better plays in a given situation. We want to differ from other formats, where game interactions are often learned and then simply handled by repetition. The goal is to have a format that presents challenges that need to be dealt with case by case, whether it is during the game itself or beforehand during the deckbuilding process at the drawing board.
Highlander is supposed to reward both deckbuilding as well as in-game skills.

...

This is the core of Highlander - love to see it written down!
Keep up the good work

Please don't get to specific about bannings - this is a vision for the format. It will be develop over time (yearly improvement f.e.).
Anyway nit-pickers or power gamers will try to find a way to sneak in more rules to get a hold

Detailed Version in german (sry I have no time at the moment to translate my thoughts into englisch).
> Die Vision gibt eine Richtung vor auf die sich alle verpflichten können. Es geht nicht darum im Detail bannings oder ähnliches zu diskutieren (siehe auch Facebook-Kommentare).
> Eine Vision sollte regelmäßig auf ihre Gültigkeit überprüft werden (Vorschlag: jährlich).
> Ich sehe nicht den Mehrwert alles in Regeln zu gießen. Es geht hier um ein Hobby und das sollte den Beteiligten Spaß machen. Wer alles bis ins Detail geregelt haben will (einzelne Kartenentscheidungen), soll dies besser in einer anderen Tätigkeit machen. Wir hören sonst auf zu spielen, weil wir uns zu Tode geregelt haben... (siehe auch Facebook-Kommentare)
> Entscheidungen werden im Konsens getroffen (Mehrheitsbeschluss). Es wird nie der Fall sein, dass alle mit der Banned-Liste zufrieden sind. Die Balance ist etwas, das im Fluss ist und Veränderungen braucht!
> Ein wichtiges Verkaufsargument für Highlander war seinerzeit auch, dass es eine Möglichkeit ist fast alle alten Karten zu spielen. Mittlerweile sind manche davon absurd teuer geworden für Neueinsteiger. Das ist ein Problem für den Highlandernachwuchs. Wir können wir das adressieren? Wer jetzt in das Format einsteigen will und bisher ein paar Drafts und Standard auf der Haben-Seite hat, ist natürlich viel stärker angesprochen von EDH, Brawl oder Pioneer bzw. Arena-gestützten Formaten.
> Für mich ist Highlander das beste Magic-Format aus den oben zitierten Gründen. Kein anderes Format hat mir so viel beigebracht und abverlangt an Gedanken, wie Highlander. Ich würde fast sagen: "You have not played Magic if you did not play Highlander" :-)

Keep up the good work! Thanks and Untap

Thanks for your opinion.
Actually I was thinking kind of the same things:

I am flirting with Temur and Bant in a Tempo/Midrange Build.
I am unsure that Midrange is the place to be against mostly Tempo and Control Strategies. You might have game against everythin but it is always more like a coin flip.

Are there any opinions on what archetypes are good vs Elfball or Goblin-Highlander (Swarm with Tokens, Combo into Craterhoof etc or addition Goblins burn opponent out respectively flood board out of nowwhere and attack/Sac for lethal)?

I think a more controlling build would be a good option. Am I wrong?

[G]

Dear Highlander-Community,

I am following the board almost a decade by now (phew i am getting old -.-)

Anyway I am struggling with Deck selection for my favorite format: European Highlander.

What did I try so far:

• Naya Zoo (2008-2010)

• Mono U Artifact Control (2009-2013)
• GWB Rock (2009-2013)
• Orzhov Lifegain/Discard (2010-2012
• Naya Tokens (2014-2019)
• Sultai Reanimator (2019)
• Jeskai Tempo (2019)
• Temur Midrange (2019)
• GWB Pattern Rector (2019)

These decks were either fun decks without competitive effort or are outclassed by other decks (4Color Blood > Zoo) or are to slow with their combo (f.e. GWB Pattern Rector).

I am not really happy respectively long-lasting interested in tweaking, fixing and optimizing any of these.
While following the https://mtgdecks.net/Highlander I have the feeling most of the decklists of unpopular archetypes are outdated.

Is there anything like an general archetype overview/metagame Breakdown besides the yearly Continental Cup?

Maybe I am looking for an "Eierlegende Wollmilch Sau" (~Jack of all trades) but I am searching for a fun Highlander which supports interactive play (not restricted to discard or counter), includes G-in its mana base and plays something inbetween aggro and midrange ultimately with some little combos or even a chance of luck combo-like finish (f.e. 1-off without much tutoring strong anyway but combo-finish possible).

Does the Swarm have any ideas?
(I am not looking for Decklists more than ideas for archetypes)

Thanks in advance

Is Scapeshift still a viable option for Tournament play or outclassed by other combo strategies respectively not fast enough vs fast aggro decks.
I was wondering cause it did not make any major appeareances in a couple of months.

it is a pity GBW-Rock is dead in Highlander-format, even if it exists in Legacy and Extended.

any advice how to make it a viable option as a tournament deck? even possible without adding U or switching to some GU-variants?

there is probably no one given you a free decklist out of his labor.

anyway i think its a pity, that there are a couple of decks (including the GBW-Rock i like so much), which do not have a good match up against all these blue based/included decks cause you do not have enough flexibility. Blue either creates Tempoadvantage or Cardadvantage, sometimes in one card. Maybe i got some of the decklists wrong, but why does it always have to be Bant or DarkBant, thats annoying. I can not believe that the other decks do not have any chance against blue based control or more like aggro-control. I think people just stick with what everybody knows works well.

[Thank You! > Decklist updated:]

Thank You! > Decklist updated:

Because i am not in possession some cards and not willing to buy them yet (Diamond Valley, LoA and so on)
Besides that i did not put in the Lander Toolbox because it opposes the reduce of Non Basic Lands.
So i started with cutting 3 NB-Lands.
I added more Disruption in the form of discard to have a little better edge against other control decks.
Harmonize got in for a little more CA.
And i put in a little different creature setup (Yosei, Baloths, Wall of Reverence)


Lands:
Polluted Delta
Flooded Strand
Marsh Flats
Verdant Catacombs
Windswept Heath
Bayou
Savannah
Scrubland
Temple Garden
Overgrown Tomb
Godless Shrine
Murmuring Bosk
Gilt-Leaf Palace
Wooded Bastion
Twilight Mire
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Volraths Stronghold
Treetop Village
Stirring Wildwood
Karakas
Dust Bowl
Wasteland
Barren Moor
Secluded Steppe
Tranquil Thicket
5x Swamp
5x Forest
1x Plains       
36 Lands

Creatures:
Elves of Deep Shadow
Braids, Cabal Minion
Dark Confidant
Kitchen Finks
Doran, the Siege Tower
Reveillark
Gaddock Teeg
Solemn Simulacrum
Fyndhorn Elves
Knight of the Reliquary
Wall of Roots
Shriekmaw
Deranged Hermit
Eternal Witness
Loxodon Hierarch
Putrid Leech
Llanowar Elves
Yavimaya Elder
Birds of Paradise
Bone Shredder
Qasali Pridemage
Genesis
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Noble Hierarch
Harmonic Sliver
Tidehollow Sculler
Tarmogoyf
Spike Weaver
Karmic Guide
Master of the Wild Hunt
Baneslayer Angel
Lotus Cobra
Steward of Valeron
Rampaging Baloths
Yosei, the Morning Star
Mesmeric Fiend
Wall of Reverence       
37 Creatures

Spells:
Garruk Wildspeaker
Liliana Vess
Hymn to Tourach
Vindicate
Maelstrom Pulse
Swords to Plowshares
Slaughter Pact
Pernicious Deed
Putrefy
Demonic Tutor
Bitterblossom
Crime/Punishent
Engineered Explosives
Profane Command
Thoughtseize
Sensei's Divining Top
Path to Exile
Recurring Nightmare
Damnation
Sorin Markov
Eladamri's Call
Living Death
Life from the Loam
Phyrexian Arena
Persecute
Oblivion Ring
Harmonize
Diabolic Intent       
28 Spells


Changes:
- 3x Painlands
- Ohran Viper
- Troll Ascetic
- Mishras Factory
- Ranger of Eos
- Scute Mob
- Great Sable Stag
- Chameleon Colossus

+ Dust Bowl
+ Forest
+ Swamp
+ Mesmeric Fiend
+ Harmonize
+ Oblivion Ring
+ Yosei, the Morning Star
+ Rampaging Baloths
+ Diabolic Intent
+ Wall of Reverence


Hope i got them all covered, the numbers are identical so far *g*


Some questions will always be

- i am always asking myself: is Graveborn Muse better than Phyrexian Arena?
- would a more aggro based setup be better against a blue metagame? (Watch Wolf, Wild Mongrel, Llanowar Elite, Great Sable Stag and Troll Ascetic back, and so on)
- Dark Confidant reveals average 3 dmg - to much? (but i think he draws 1 to 2 cards and then mostly blocks)
- Bitterblossom to much aggro for this deck? (i like to be the aggressor against the classical control decks, this ist the best card if resolved; against aggro its always shuffled away)

Please subscribe your oppinions even if just filled with general thoughts on weak and strong sides of the deck.

Thank You!

Is it possible to post some deck lists?

i am interested in the "Big Rock", because i am having trouble with my deck Rock against T1 or T1.5 decks.

greets

no thoughts to share?

First: i know there is a GBW Rock thread already, but i did'nt want to disrupt the discussion there.

Second: I am wondering if this deck can make it at a tournament?

Third: if not (what i kind of think), what cards would you advice to integrate into this deck?


The strategy of this deck is like ment to be a midrange aggro-control deck with some nice disruption and removals.


Lands:
Caves of Koilos
Brushland
Llanowar Wastes
Gilt-Leaf Palace
Murmuring Bosk
Wooded Bastion
Windswept Heath
Twilight Mire
Polluted Delta
Temple Garden
Flooded Strand
Bayou
Savannah
Scrubland
Overgrown Tomb
Godless Shrine
Marsh Flats
Verdant Catacombs
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Treetop Village
Stirring Wildwood
Karakas
Volraths Stronghold
Mishra's Factory
Wasteland
Barren Moor
Secluded Steppe
Tranquil Thicket
4x Swamp
4x Forest
1x Plains
___________________
37 Lands

Creatures:
Chameleon Colossus
Elves of Deep Shadow
Braids, Cabal Minion
Dark Confidant
Kitchen Finks
Doran, the Siege Tower
Reveillark
Gaddock Teeg
Ohran Viper
Solemn Simulacrum
Fyndhorn Elves
Knight of the Reliquary
Wall of Roots
Shriekmaw
Deranged Hermit
Eternal Witness
Loxodon Hierarch
Putrid Leech
Llanowar Elves
Yavimaya Elder
Birds of Paradise
Bone Shredder
Qasali Pridemage
Genesis
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Troll Ascetic
Noble Hierarch
Harmonic Sliver
Tidehollow Sculler
Tarmogoyf
Spike Weaver
Great Sable Stag
Wickerbough Elder
Karmic Guide
Master of the Wild Hunt Baneslayer Angel
Scute Mob
Ranger of Eos
_________________
38 Creatures

Spells:
Garruk Wildspeaker
Liliana Vess
Hymn to Tourach
Vindicate
Maelstrom Pulse
Swords to Plowshares
Slaughter Pact
Pernicious Deed
Putrefy
Demonic Tutor
Bitterblossom
Crime/Punishent
Engineered Explosives
Profane Command
Thoughtseize
Sensei's Divining Top
Path to Exile
Recurring Nightmare
Damnation
Sorin Markov
Eladamri's Call
Living Death
Life from the Loam
Phyresian Arena
Persecute
__________________
25 Spells



Further Cards i am thinking about are:

Mesmeric Fiend > more Disruption
Dust Bowl > more Disruption + good with LftL
Graveborn Muse > better than Pyrexian Arena?
Martial Coup > Removal and/or wincondition, buys time against aggro
Decree of Justice > same as Coup minus Removal
Spike Feeder > Lifegain, needed against red-based Aggro?!
All Suns Dawn > nice Regrowht effect,  minus very Slow

Are there any real good cards against blue based control or aggro control i did not take into account?

Please share your thoughts and type your suggestion to my deck.

Thank you!