MBC - How strong can it be?

[Ludwitch]

I am thinking about building a Mono Black Control deck. With Creature Removal against aggro and hand disruption against combo and control. Then generate a lot of mana with Swamps, Extraplanar Lens and Cabal Coffers and win with a big creature like Reiver Deamon or Visara, or with a big consume spirit.

I bet aggro will be no problem, but I am worried about the control matchup and even more the combo matchup. Do you have general suggestions? Specific cards that I should play for better chances against combo/control?

[Mythrandir]

I am thinking about building a Mono Black Control deck. With Creature Removal against aggro and hand disruption against combo and control. Then generate a lot of mana with Swamps, Extraplanar Lens and Cabal Coffers and win with a big creature like Reiver Deamon or Visara, or with a big consume spirit.

I bet aggro will be no problem, but I am worried about the control matchup and even more the combo matchup. Do you have general suggestions? Specific cards that I should play for better chances against combo/control?

I´ve seen some MBC, but never one that was competitive.
Reiver demon doesnt seem that good.

Why dont u try and build one and post a decklis?
Here are some cards as a starter:

Duress
thoughtseize
hymn to tourach
cabal therapy
Ravenous rats
damnation
shriekmaw
hypnotic specter
mesmeric fiend
dark ritual
chainers edict
bane of the living
mutilate
necro
yagmowth bargain
skeletal scrying
corrupt
demonic tutor
beseech the queen
Shred memory
(others card with transmute)
dusk urchins
onna queen of the fae (better that reiver IMO)
smother


However i feel thatif u built a "MBC" with splashed for U or W (and i know M = mono) would be better
W gives you more and better removal, land tax, that new "mesmeric fiend", castigate, vindicate, enlightened tutor,
U gives you intuition, gifts, brainstorm, impulse, some xU counters if you like, bounce spells with cantrips, shadow mage,etc..

How dou you feel about splashing?

hope to see some deck builds to comment

[Ludwitch]

I was thinking about the bluesplash and the big creatures the Timmy in me wants to play. So the obvious question I asked myself was: Why not make it Reanimator? I had such a deck some years ago, but it was nothing more than a random pile of cards. I will throw together a decklist and post it in the deckclinic.

[Mythrandir]

I was thinking about the bluesplash and the big creatures the Timmy in me wants to play. So the obvious question I asked myself was: Why not make it Reanimator? I had such a deck some years ago, but it was nothing more than a random pile of cards. I will throw together a decklist and post it in the deckclinic.

well, MBC (even with splash) is way different from a reanimator, but you should try it anyway, althoug things like hermit druid/oath would make nice additions to a reanimator.

[Demonlance]

The main problem with MBC in highlander is that alot of good black cards have you pay/lose life for, and this can be a problem since there are quite a few decently fast HL decks out there. To get around that, some decks that aren't MBC just don't run the extremely good cards that require life payment, or have life gain, or make sure their opponent loses more. I would reccomend having life gain (In my opinion, it is not a good idea to have low life when facing aggro and such), but luckily, mono black has quite a few cards that gain you life, like  Corrupt, Drain Life, Highway Robber, Morsel Theft, Shadow Theft, Soul Burn (like drain life, but costs 1 more), Vampiric Link, Vampiric Touch, Tendrils of corruption, Vicious Hunger, Kokusho, Soul Spike, Rhystic Syphon, Soul Feast, Syphon Life, Consume Spirit, Tendrils of Agony, and probably many more. Whats awesome about some of these is that they're relevant to what you want to do.

[coldcrow]

An MBC deck should be strictly going the Suicide Black route imho. Black has to kill fast because it simply can't deal with enchantments and to some extent artifacts. I ran a pretty successful build in the Online-League, though I was favored by luck sometimes.

Absolute staples: Duress, Thoughtseize, Hymn, Hyppie, Ritual, The Skull, the bb knights, negator, flesh reaver, blacks creature removal spells, chain of smog, w-orb, wire, sinkhole, (encroach), kaerveks spite, etc.

It has to hit fast and hard. Also if you take a more controllish route, targetted or random discard + LD is your friend.

[Sturmgott]

An MBC deck should be strictly going the Suicide Black route imho.

Looks like there's someone out there who doesn't quite know what MBC means... it's Mono Black *CONTROL*. What you refer too is known as Suicide Black and simply something completely different, like e.g. Blue Skies ist not MUC.

[coldcrow]

Looks like there's someone out there who doesn't quite know what MBC means... it's Mono Black *CONTROL*. What you refer too is known as Suicide Black and simply something completely different, like e.g. Blue Skies ist not MUC.

Looks like someone didn't read the entire short post or simply tries to willfully bash me. I pretty much know about the difference of these two archetypes. I was just voicing my opinion about the inability of black to deal with enchantments, thus being vulnerable in a long game. A black stax build is surely viable though I hardly see it as a MBC since stax would want other colours too.

As I said .. going in the direction of the faster aggro build... meaning hybrid. Actually I was pretty succesful in the league running such a hybrid. Efficient beaters plus discard/LD.

[Georg B]

Well, you wrote that an MBC deck should work like a suicide deck.
I think Frank read it right. You should articulate more pricisely.

[coldcrow]

I admit I didn't formulate it accurately. I wanted to point out that in my opinion in the specific HL 100 format MBC should go a hybrid route with Sui-black.

[Mythrandir]

I admit I didn't formulate it accurately. I wanted to point out that in my opinion in the specific HL 100 format MBC should go a hybrid route with Sui-black.

The problem there is the "C"... MBC can´t go aggro because it's a control deck...
What you mean is MB decks should go more suicidal instead of control. 

[peeler]

The problem is that there is no good reason to stay mono B, you don`t get any non-basic hosers so why you dont want to play a second or third colour?

[Loessli]

After testing this archetype I can give you a pretty clear scoop on the issue: It doesn't work. RDW beats MBC very easily, MUC does too due to the enhanced ability of card draw and pretty much every other decktype does as well. B/W control doesn't work as well (again, no draw). Stick with Suicide and add Stuff like Winter Orb and Tangle Wire.

[coldcrow]

I tested some mainly black control decks and MBC lately. While it has clear drawbacks it still viable, just not Tier 1.
The main problem is that it's control cards aren't all purpose like counters, deed and more. I think the way to go for MBC is loading it with the best black draw (as life hurting as it is), black mana accel (ritual, coffers, magus, revenant, maybe lens) and it's good drain life effects (consume spirit, soul spike, spinning darkness, consuming vapors).

RDW is very hard to beat though cause your window to draw the lifegain is very , very small. Classic draw-go is likely hard, since black threats are all sorcery speed. But those two decks don't show up that often. Versus evrything else your matchup is acceptable depending on the draws of course.

My current MBC list:

// Lands
   1 [HOP] Cabal Coffers
   1 [AN] Library of Alexandria
   1 [MPR] Wasteland
   1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
   1 [TSP] Vesuva
   30 [7E] Swamp (4)
   1 [DK] Maze of Ith
   1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
   1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
   1 [CS] Dark Depths

// Creatures
   1 [PLC] Magus of the Coffers
   1 [TO] Nantuko Shade
   1 [MM] Thrashing Wumpus
   1 [ZEN] Vampire Hexmage
   1 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
   1 [HOP] Withered Wretch
   1 [ROE] Nirkana Revenant
   1 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
   1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
   1 [CHK] Nezumi Graverobber
   1 [M10] Hypnotic Specter
   1 [CHK] Kokusho, the Evening Star
   1 [ROE] Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
   1 [MR] Solemn Simulacrum
   1 [OD] Braids, Cabal Minion
   1 [10E] Phyrexian Rager
   1 [LE] Bane of the Living

// Spells
   1 [HOP] Beseech the Queen
   1 [MOR] Bitterblossom
   1 [HOP] Consume Spirit
   1 [DDD] Corrupt
   1 [PLC] Damnation
   1 [HOP] Dark Ritual
   1 [DDC] Demonic Tutor
   1 [BD] Diabolic Edict
   1 [10E] Distress
   1 [BD] Drain Life
   1 [M10] Duress
   1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
   1 [ST] Grim Tutor
   1 [AT] Hymn to Tourach
   1 [ALA] Infest
   1 [DDD] Liliana Vess
   1 [M10] Mind Shatter
   1 [ZEN] Mind Sludge
   1 [DDD] Mutilate
   1 [V09] Necropotence
   1 [FD] Night's Whisper
   1 [PY] Rhystic Tutor
   1 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
   1 [RAV] Shred Memory
   1 [DDD] Sign in Blood
   1 [UB] Sinkhole
   1 [ZEN] Sorin Markov
   1 [CS] Soul Spike
   1 [WL] Spinning Darkness
   1 [DDD] Tendrils of Corruption
   1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
   1 [ROE] Consuming Vapors
   1 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
   1 [ROE] Suffer the Past
   1 [OD] Skeletal Scrying
   1 [9E] Phyrexian Arena
   1 [ZEN] Sadistic Sacrament
   1 [TSP] Phyrexian Totem
   1 [M10] Pithing Needle
   1 [OD] Innocent Blood
   1 [MR] Oblivion Stone
   1 [A] Nevinyrral's Disk
   1 [MM] Unmask
   1 [UD] Yawgmoth's Bargain

Right now the curve is a bit on the high side, also there might be more removal needed. Results are varying but quite pleasing. Only real problem are the two aformentioned archetypes. Stax/Oath is doable but also one of the weaker matchups. Dark Depths is in for the fun of it it's the first card to go of course.

I would be very grateful for more card propositions, specifically looking for more creature threats to deal with planeswalkers.

[Nastaboi]

Splashing a colour is too easy right now and there is no reason not to. Just add in four fetchlands, one or two duals and a signet and you're set. I'd splash green for Deed, Pulse, Grip, Putrefy, but you can go white as well.

Splash or not, I would add mana artifacts.