Staxx Oath v. 3.0

[Tabris]

Again,

I absolutly appreciate your work here. As I mentioned I was building my own staxx deck but with more creatures and some pet cards (clock of omens e.g.) etc.

I like the idea to cheat emrakul in the game but I am also eager to know how many times did you cross bribery, sower, o-ring, karakas, and stuff ?
In my local meta I am always confronted with two briberys at least. And as you wrote before, counter-heavy builds are very hard to handle (defense grid ? city of solitude ?)

Also how good is the new Elspeth ? (I guess she´s much like the old one. Good vs aggro, better vs control but bit more expensive)

What about Dispeller's Capsule ? ( I see you dont play trinket mage bc of oath, but in this deck he´s strong (voltaic key, top, nihil spellbomb, needle, capsule, explosives) and you can reccur it) beceaus most of the time, I realy need to ged rid of enchantments and artifacts (O-ring, B2B etc.) or Hide/Seek ?

Swords to plowshares, I think you underestimate the power of the card (mana costs). Sometimes you simply have get rid of things after you spend all your mana or simply couldnt stop your opponent from casting a steel hellkite, trygon predator etc.

there´s more stuff I want to talk about maybe we could speak in icq about some tweaks and can wrote it down here if ppl are interested.

[LasH]

Hi Kassow,

nice to see your new decklist. I've played oath staxx for a while now and i have to credit, that this is the most solid version i've seen so far. Good job!

About your "watch list". I think all cards there are playable for sure. Maybe its all a question about metagame.
The question for the watch list should be: Which cards in the maindeck can you remove? I think its really hard to cut cards in this deck, exspecially because alot of cards are simply set.

One Question stays for me: You play now alot of token generators, did u never got problems with your own tabernacle?

About the article.
magicplayer.org has a new site, a blog-site where some people write about decks like you did here.
I've never read such a good desciption about a highlander deck and i would love to see this published on the blog. I think the user "Tabris" might help here.

Again, very nice deck, love to play it.

Btw, i'm working on a creature based staxx like tabris, too. With trinket mage and other creatures (sharum, lodestone golem, triskelion etc). I personally think the same like him about Emrakul. It can destroy yourself so easy..Bribery is a problem... On the other hand, u always win if your opponent does NOT handle him in his next turn.. But from my sight: I rahter run totally save creatures, like empyrial archangel.

[Tabris]

Lash,

you absolutly read my mind!

I just wanted to ask if Kassow would wrote this as an article for the blog. I would absolutly publish it there.

At this time I am not sure which version is better. I like my Lodestone Golem, my Desolation Angel, Sharuum, Trinket Mage etc. A Oath version would force a player to cut all these sweet creatures and just include Empyrial Archangel, Progenitus and Emrakul ( I think just one creature is to risky bc of hide seek and stuff, also if you have one of them on your hand and have no brainstorm, scroll rack, jace 2.0 you have also a chance to win).

so Kassow ? what about the article ?

[Kassow-Rossing]

Again,

I absolutly appreciate your work here. As I mentioned I was building my own staxx deck but with more creatures and some pet cards (clock of omens e.g.) etc.

I like the idea to cheat emrakul in the game but I am also eager to know how many times did you cross bribery, sower, o-ring, karakas, and stuff ?
In my local meta I am always confronted with two briberys at least. And as you wrote before, counter-heavy builds are very hard to handle (defense grid ? city of solitude ?)

Also how good is the new Elspeth ? (I guess she´s much like the old one. Good vs aggro, better vs control but bit more expensive)

What about Dispeller's Capsule ? ( I see you dont play trinket mage bc of oath, but in this deck he´s strong (voltaic key, top, nihil spellbomb, needle, capsule, explosives) and you can reccur it) beceaus most of the time, I realy need to ged rid of enchantments and artifacts (O-ring, B2B etc.) or Hide/Seek ?

Swords to plowshares, I think you underestimate the power of the card (mana costs). Sometimes you simply have get rid of things after you spend all your mana or simply couldnt stop your opponent from casting a steel hellkite, trygon predator etc.

there´s more stuff I want to talk about maybe we could speak in icq about some tweaks and can wrote it down here if ppl are interested.

First of all thx for responding! Now from the top:
I am also thinking about a version with several creatures, where Oath is either not included or not near any part of win-condition. The creatures I've come up with this far are:
1. Baneslayer Angel
2. Grave Titan
3. Hokori, Dust Drinker
4. Kaho, Minamo Historian
5. Karn, Silver Golem
6. Knight of the Reliquary
7. Lodestone Golem
8. Lotus Cobra
9. Primeval Titan
10. Sharrum the Hegemon
11. Sun Titan
12. Trinket Mage
13. World Queller
Right now I'll go for my Emrakul built but I will try out some more creatures in the future.

Well Karakas isn't much of a problem because the opponent will have to have it right when Emrakul enters battlefield through Oath or Polymorph for him to survive. That doesn't happen often even for a deck featuring it. If Emrakul gets cast, nothing will help. Sower, Venser, O-Ring and Journey to "some"where are all good answers but they are few and I like to play one giant big ass creature where there are this few cards that can answer it. Bribery is not really an amazing card so I don't expect people to play that a lot. If they do, they should be rewarded. I can built a deck without any Grave Titan, Primeval Titan, Emrakul and more but that won't do this deck any good. Do you agree?

I dislike Clock of Omens because it's often a dead card. It doesn't do the mana ramp very well and it only works great with Winter Orb and Static Orb. I remember cutting it from my 1.0 version to the 2.0 version for making room for the Thopter-Sword combo. I don't think I will test Clock of Omens again for a very long time unless there will be a new sort of Obelisk of Alara-ish card.

About Defense Grid and City of Solitute: First of all one should never play Defense Grid over City of Solitute even though the deck features Mishra's Workshop. The power lvl is just of different universes in my eyes. Let me know what you think. Taking that into consideration, I don't think the deck should play either because City is just such a poor card. I'm testing Boseiju instead, which both fits the theme of the deck and offers almost the same solution to the same problem.

The new Elspeth is very good and you are correct. She is just like the old one (1.5 tokens per turn instead of 1) but better if you don't take into consideration that she costs more. She will also provide with three tokens much faster than Knight-Errant, which is very neat since that helps Smokestack and Polymorph a lot more. Elspeth Tirel costs one more mana, which makes it a little worse, but it's really good in this deck and I don't ever think I will cut it for as logn as the theme remains or untill there are four different Elspeth's out there and three of them are better for the deck than Tirel

I rarely need to destroy any Artifacts or Enchantments and not for four mana at least. I don't like Dispeller's Capsule because it's really expensive and Maelstrom Pulse does it better. If I played Trinket Mage, I would very much like to play the white Capsule. Maybe even the Executioner's but I doubt it.

I did play Voltaic Key in 2.0 but it's also often a dead card. It doesn't mana ramp that well (often gives one extra colourless mana) and now that I don't play Obelisk of Alara, it really doesn't seem to serve any purpose. Key has always been a fun and somewhat great card without ever being amazing. I won't play that one again unless some other great Artifacts will enter the deck again. See the "Obelisk of Alara-ish" comment further up.

I do play Nihil Spellbomb. It is absolutely amazing and much better than Tormod's Crypt and Phyrexian Furnace as long as you need your own graveyard (I'm thinking about you, Relic of Progenitus)

I don't like Pithing Needle. It won't offer the answers I need that often. Sometimes it will, obviously, but like Stifle, it's very narrow. I did play it in 1.0 but I really think it's no good. What do you use it for? Karakas and?

Hm Engineered Explosive would be perfect for the deck if it didn't take out so much in the deck itself. I have played it once and it does great on x=0 but x=2 is often the best one and that will hurt Staxx Oath itself SO much! U think I should put it on Testing List again?

I am testing Swords to Plowshares. It's really good but I would more like for a card like Wrath of God I think. I really don't think this deck have the luxery of playing cards that only offers 1:1 when playing cards like Armageddon n' stuff. I'm not facing either Trygon Predator or Steel Hellkite. I suggest any one who is, should add Swords to Plowshares to the deck and change it for Devastation.

Lastly I don't have ICQ. I have MSN or Facebook You can also write to my e-mail at
wakedeck@gmail.com
I would definitly not mind if you posted all of your ideas in this thread. It's entirely up to you. Thx for all

[Kassow-Rossing]

Hi Kassow,

nice to see your new decklist. I've played oath staxx for a while now and i have to credit, that this is the most solid version i've seen so far. Good job!

About your "watch list". I think all cards there are playable for sure. Maybe its all a question about metagame.
The question for the watch list should be: Which cards in the maindeck can you remove? I think its really hard to cut cards in this deck, exspecially because alot of cards are simply set.

One Question stays for me: You play now alot of token generators, did u never got problems with your own tabernacle?

About the article.
magicplayer.org has a new site, a blog-site where some people write about decks like you did here.
I've never read such a good desciption about a highlander deck and i would love to see this published on the blog. I think the user "Tabris" might help here.

Again, very nice deck, love to play it.

Btw, i'm working on a creature based staxx like tabris, too. With trinket mage and other creatures (sharum, lodestone golem, triskelion etc). I personally think the same like him about Emrakul. It can destroy yourself so easy..Bribery is a problem... On the other hand, u always win if your opponent does NOT handle him in his next turn.. But from my sight: I rahter run totally save creatures, like empyrial archangel.

Hi And thx
Yeah much of the cards are set and can't be replaced. There are only around 10-15 cards that really can be touched.

Hehe I haven't had problem with The Tabernacle and tokens yet. I guess it's because I can choose to play Tabernacle if I wish or not. I can also destroy it with Armageddon's and the likes. Finally there aren't thousands of tokens in the deck so it's not devastating. I think I'll be fine. It's still an amazing card. The tokens in here are mostly for Polymorph and for blocking as well as for Smokestack. Tabernacle doesn't hurt any of these themes.

Yeah the creature-based version I think will be really great as well. For now I'm keeping the one Eldrazi and nothing else. You're totally right that Empyrial Archangel is such a great Oath of Druids card. At least if there're more than the angel in there. It's not really good with Polymorph so 3.0 will be with Emrakul and Polymorph.

Thx for playing last week by the way Hope to see you soon again.
-Patrick

[Kassow-Rossing]

Lash,

you absolutly read my mind!

I just wanted to ask if Kassow would wrote this as an article for the blog. I would absolutly publish it there.

At this time I am not sure which version is better. I like my Lodestone Golem, my Desolation Angel, Sharuum, Trinket Mage etc. A Oath version would force a player to cut all these sweet creatures and just include Empyrial Archangel, Progenitus and Emrakul ( I think just one creature is to risky bc of hide seek and stuff, also if you have one of them on your hand and have no brainstorm, scroll rack, jace 2.0 you have also a chance to win).

so Kassow ? what about the article ?

I haven't faced Hide // Seek yet so I don't really know about this. I can say, though, that Oath and Polymorph (Emrakul) is not near the only way of winning. Actually it's just a side-win-condition that features three cards and that's it.

Q1: Can you please link me to the blogs?
Q2: Can I publish an article that hasn't been done yet?
Q3: Will people really be interested in reading it?
Q4: Will you give me a few advices for what to change in the article before publishing (assuming you've read it all)?

Thx, Patrick

[Tabris]

I´ve added you in MSN.

[Kassow-Rossing]

My MSN is patrick.kassow.rossing@hotmail.com

[Tabris]

http://blog.magicplayer.org/2011/01/18/5c-staxx-oath/

there we go

[Helle]

I'd really like to know why you don't play Destructive Force? I think I'd like it better than Upheaval, as it destroys creatures and lands instead of just bouncing them back. Upheaval gives you a new start with more speed than your opponent. Its pretty good against control decks, but I didn't like it against fast aggro. Destructive Force however is one mana more expansive, but wrecks aggro entirely, as all their creatures die (except pro:red) and they don't have mana left to play the cards in their hands. Against control it's less devastating, but killing 5 lands still is pretty good.

[coldcrow]

5c stax is a pretty weak choice for the current meta imho. It has horrible matchups vs burn, U/R counterburn, U/x skies builds, MUC, and I doubt it can even race fast combo (except for nutty oath or acceleration hands). Also green-based aggro has alot of ETB:destroy artifact creatures which further cause headaches to such decks.

I really like prison decks but imho classic 5c variants with clunky cards like nether void are on a absolute low at the moment.

[LasH]

Testings show the exact opposite. It has problems vs pure permission decks which are very rare atm. All other decks u mentioned there were no match for the deck.

If permission decks grow, add decree of annihilation and boseiju and the mu is winable.

[Kassow-Rossing]

http://blog.magicplayer.org/2011/01/18/5c-staxx-oath/

there we go

I can see you've already posted part of the article on the blog already I wouldn't mind if you would prevent cutting too much of the text from my articble, because that really makes for a different story (if you know what I mean).

What is now done (for what I think) is:
1. Overview
2. Intro and theme
3. Deck List
4. Lands
5. Creature(s)
6. Planeswalkers and
7. Mana Arti. and Ench.

The rest will need some more work. I know what to write, but it's still a hard job to do You can now post whatever you feel like from the first seven, thx.

[Kassow-Rossing]

I'd really like to know why you don't play Destructive Force? I think I'd like it better than Upheaval, as it destroys creatures and lands instead of just bouncing them back. Upheaval gives you a new start with more speed than your opponent. Its pretty good against control decks, but I didn't like it against fast aggro. Destructive Force however is one mana more expansive, but wrecks aggro entirely, as all their creatures die (except pro:red) and they don't have mana left to play the cards in their hands. Against control it's less devastating, but killing 5 lands still is pretty good.

Let me start asking you if you've ever played with Upheaval back in the days with Psychatog or here in the Highlander format..?

Upheaval and Destructive Force serves two different functions in the deck. Destructive Force is very much like Wildfire and Burning of Xinye, which both was in the deck from the very beginning. From the second to the third version of my version of Staxx Oath I felt like I needed a third one and thus Devastation was added. Quite more powerful since it takes out M11 Titans and Baneslayers (+ many more) but also costs the extra mana. Destructive Force is simply a stricly weaker version, which I do not need yet.

Now to the Upheaval vs. Des. Force:
Upheaval CAN be cast for one less mana, which doesn't happen often, but it's worth noting. Upheaval is often great against aggro because it will help you get back on the feet with better cards, while your opponent still has the same cards. That sounds weird, I know, but the huge difference betweeen aggro and the other archetypes in Highlander is that most cards looks the same. In Staxx we have a few key cards that are more important than the rest. By turn 9 one is more likely to have drawn some sort of combination of great cards, whereas aggro will still have about the same cards. Upheaval will much easier win the game against control by adding more mana to the pool than it costs. Five lands isn't much in the late game. Five damage is too little to take out all guys.

However.. Destructive Force IS on the testing list for the same reason you've presenting. It will work a little better against aggro than Upheaval even though it's much worse against control. My personal conclusion: I will keep Upheaval for now but will try out Destructive Force. Please give me feedback if you ever test Des.Force!

[Kassow-Rossing]

5c stax is a pretty weak choice for the current meta imho. It has horrible matchups vs burn, U/R counterburn, U/x skies builds, MUC, and I doubt it can even race fast combo (except for nutty oath or acceleration hands). Also green-based aggro has alot of ETB:destroy artifact creatures which further cause headaches to such decks.

I really like prison decks but imho classic 5c variants with clunky cards like nether void are on a absolute low at the moment.

I partly agree with your theory that Staxx is bad against those decks. I completely disagree with your conclusion though "The current meta" is not the same in Denmark and on MWS as it is where you live. Your conclusion fails, sorry!

Mono Red burn has a 60/40 against this Staxx Oath. U/R counterburn can't beat this deck I think. Skies I'm not sure. Have only played one match against it since the change and I won 2-0. MUC I'm not sure about either. A lot of coutner spells is not a welcoming sight, so maybe you're right. I doubt combo can beat this deck either. I haven't lost to any (total) since the change either. Aggro is not longer a problem after the change. Control with counters are the worst match-up.

Nether Void is not a clunky card. It wins straight up most of the times.