New bannings I / 2012

[DarkLight]

Also the aforementioned nut-draws. For it is seemingly ok to go T1 hierarch, T2 qasali, establish a board presence and have one answer on board already and maybe holding daze/pierce/force ...

So your post says in my eyes the problem is not only G/W/x it is espacialy G/W/U/x, because they also have other cards to produce cardadvantage?! *So why don't discuss about to ban any BLUE cards like Jace the Mindsculptor, Mana Drain or Intuition?

It would force g/w/x aggro to play more non-creature answers, which, by the way, other decks have to do aswell to deal with creatures but have no instant tutors for.

Aggrodecks are not really "aggro" anymore if you need to waste more and more creatureslots for non-creaturespells, they will all transform to Goodstuff.
Other decks have to play more spells to handle creatures?! Yes but there much more possibilities.

I can't hear anymore the whiners ...
Aggro -kills-> Control -kills-> Combo -kills-> Aggro
... so you all should stop to cry about a matchup which control normaly have to lose.

*=Ironic

[Kassow-Rossing]

I think perhaps Stoneforge should get banned. I completely trust the HL Council's decision in 6 months.

Yeah it's really hard to play artifact or creature removal?!


The banlist changes are official since 5 days and all people still flame that aggro is still overpowered? You all tested that much?

Did I flame that aggro is still overpowered?
No

Did I say I based my one-liner theory on evidence?
No

Did I say I tested that much in five days?
No

Does playing artifact and creature removal makes Stoneforge Mystic a reasonable card?
No

Wake up before you throw trash. What I said was: I believe Stoneforge Mystic should still get banned even though Birthing Pod has been banned AND that I totally trust the decision in six month whatever that decision might end up be because I trust in the Highlander Council.

[DarkLight]

I'm sorry if you felt offended but, ...

The banlist changes are official since 5 days and all people still flame that aggro is still overpowered? You ALL tested that much?

... this applied to all posts before, not only yours.

Does playing artifact and creature removal makes Stoneforge Mystic a reasonable card?
No

For sure in my humble opinion the possibility makes Stoneforge Mystic reasonable.

[coldcrow]

You misunderstood my post. When I said G/W/x "aggro" I meant the almost uniform goodstuff decks.
And exactly they "break" your triangle of Aggro -kills-> Control -kills-> Combo -kills-> Aggro.

And the problem in goodstuff is not Jace, nor it is intuition, lol. Jace is a legitimate if overpowered swiss knife. See how many decks run him. But if you made the choice to run creatures you are really hard pressed not to start G/W.
I am not even saying the Goodstuff is totally dominating, but it has basically only good matchups. A good comparison would be the old landstill in vintage years gone. It had 50% vs. everything. Goodstuff takes this further and has - I don't know - maybe 60%-65% vs. many decks, except a few designed to beat it. That is imho simply wrong, but I am not sure if this can be solved with the banlist or is a byproduct of the format's rules.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

The problem is that there are no control tools to unban

Maybe Balance, Library of Alexandria?


About LED: If LED gets unbanned I'd have a close watch on Auriok Salvangers, there seem to be quite some enablers for LED+Salvangers+Spellbomb.


About creature tutors: The one most powerfull imho is Green Sun's Zenith. I was just curious it did not get mentioned and is not watched like Worldly Tutor is.


I saw Intuition+Loam package making it's way into goodstuff decks. I think loam helps good stuff just as much as control (at least with intuition as enabler).

[GoblinPiledriver]

Worldly Tutor searches for any creature and Green Sun's Zenith only for green ones. That's why worldly tutor is on the watchlist, and the other mirage 1mana tutors are even banned  vampiric tutor,mystical tutor, enlighted tutor. Only the worly tutor seems to be healthy for the format.

I personally think that the control decks are strenghted by life from the laom. Maybe there will be more to seen of them in next time.

[MarcMagic]

The problem is that there are no control tools to unban

Maybe Balance, Library of Alexandria?


About LED: If LED gets unbanned I'd have a close watch on Auriok Salvangers, there seem to be quite some enablers for LED+Salvangers+Spellbomb.


About creature tutors: The one most powerfull imho is Green Sun's Zenith. I was just curious it did not get mentioned and is not watched like Worldly Tutor is.


I saw Intuition+Loam package making it's way into goodstuff decks. I think loam helps good stuff just as much as control (at least with intuition as enabler).

LoA won't get unbaned. Especially not after LftL. Apart from that LoA won't solve the problem because it neither helps Control vs. Aggro nor gives it an advantage against Goofstuff (they can use LoA as well btw) and it can make Control matchups very boring and random.

Second thing to mention is that I don't think Bomberman strategies will dominate the HL meta in any way. Ofc you can play it in Oath decks but if you resolve Oath it's over most of the times anyways. It will help TPS builds way more (hi @ infernal tutor etc.) but even there I don't think it's OP because most decks are actually too fast or can handle combo pretty well while putting pressure through a good clock.

Last thing to say is about Green Sun's Zenith. It's a very strong card but it has some downsides to be better than Worldy Tutor. It is a bit slower and it fetches only green creatures. Although green creatures are probably searched most of the time anyways there are so many 3-5c decks that would like to find non-green answers as well (Flametongue Kavu/Phantasmal Image/Venser etc pp). GSZ is still a VERY strong card but Worldy Tutor is just nuts.

€dit: GoblinPiledriver was already faster.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

LoA won't get unbaned. Especially not after LftL. Apart from that LoA won't solve the problem because it neither helps Control vs. Aggro nor gives it an advantage against Goofstuff (they can use LoA as well btw) and it can make Control matchups very boring and random.

Second thing to mention is that I don't think Bomberman strategies will dominate the HL meta in any way. Ofc you can play it in Oath decks but if you resolve Oath it's over most of the times anyways. It will help TPS builds way more (hi @ infernal tutor etc.) but even there I don't think it's OP because most decks are actually too fast or can handle combo pretty well while putting pressure through a good clock.

Last thing to say is about Green Sun's Zenith. It's a very strong card but it has some downsides to be better than Worldy Tutor. It is a bit slower and it fetches only green creatures. Although green creatures are probably searched most of the time anyways there are so many 3-5c decks that would like to find non-green answers as well (Flametongue Kavu/Phantasmal Image/Venser etc pp). GSZ is still a VERY strong card but Worldy Tutor is just nuts.

€dit: GoblinPiledriver was already faster.

You are probably right about LoA, what do you think about Balance?

Only testing will show how strong Bomberman can get. I think it's quite a resilient combo with some enablers (I'd try oath+reanimator). On the other hand Protean Hulk is no problem either, I think they are somewhat comparable, the Hulk needing a sac outlet though.

GSZ has a big advantage over Worldly Tutor: no card disadvantage. I think that's quite important and like you said, green creatures are searched most of the time anyways. I play GSZ over Worldly Tutor for that reason even if it costs one extra cc (if you have a tight curve, you'll need to plan that mana one turn earlier).

[schmuelle]

I have been playing a lot online Non-EDH Highlander and I'm sick and tired of 3rd turn back to basics. Is there someone who agrees on that? I kinda have to mulligan my good stuff list every time until i find a disenchant or else i just loose...
Any comments?

Regards

[Nastaboi]

play basic lands

use fetchlands to find them

[schmuelle]

yeah thanks. i rly had no clue, that worked... 

[Tiggupiru]

yeah thanks. i rly had no clue, that worked... 

My pet deck loses to card X. Plz ban it.

[schmuelle]

was not suggesting to ban it. was just asking for some similar experiences.

[tonytahiti]

if you look at recent results, 4c and 5c goodstuff lists are doing very well. back to basics is one way to fight those decks and is one way to prevent that only those (imo quite boring) lists dominate this meta. you can be very glad cards like back to basics are in this meta otherwise you play the goodstuff mirror all day every day. that card deserves no mention in a bannings thread.

[schmuelle]

Can you gimme a link or page, where those results come from? I'm trying pretty hard with my list - but it just doesnt seem to work.